Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[Transportfan]

This is Downsview park station. Why don't you think that it's on Sheppard? If this isn't on Sheppard, then most of the Bloor stations aren't on Bloor (they run just north of it instead of under it) and many of the Yonge line stations aren't on Yonge (they run to the side of Yonge).

That's precisely the reason Downsview Park shouldn't be called Sheppard West. Subway stops are named after the street they cross, not which streets they run along or under.

The original working name of the station "Downsview Park" was Sheppard West so I don't see why it's obvious that it doesn't "deserve" the name...

When the extension was first proposed, the TTC hadn't thought of how to deal with it yet.

An interesting note: When Downsview station was first built, the TTC didn't want to call it Sheppard West because it was expected that the Sheppard line was going to be extended west in the not-to-distant future, so they wanted a neutral name for the eventual interchange station. But as the years went by and the Sheppard extension seemed less likely, and the Spadina extension was started, with a new station closer to Downsview Park, they realized changing the station names now made more sense.

 

[Megaton327]

That seems to implicitly say that there won't be any free transfers between Go Transit/YRT/Zum and York University, at least without some further negotiation/agreement.

On a related note, I found this article from a couple of months ago, which says that "nothing has been decided" with regard to the York University Go Train station.

I did not read anything to the effect of there being no free transfers. The sole mention of fares in the document is "To offset some of the operating costs of the subway, the TTC would receive all fare revenues from customers using the subway service." It doesn't say what fare revenues those are. YRT/GO/Brampton might have to pay the TTC $3, or some fraction of it, for their bus riders making the York U trip, or there might altogether be no fare revenue for such trips. That is not mutually exclusive to the TTC receiving all fare revenues from customers using the subway service--the TTC can receive a $0.00 fare from some customers in certain cases, and that is all of the fare revenue.

As for the York U article, you must be joking. That's clearly typical PR spin--the article is about some of the 225 daily users of the station being upset about its possible closure, so of course when contacted the official comment will be "oh, maybe, maybe not, don't worry!" even if they are 100% sure they're closing the station. It also says "Aikins said if the GO Train does wind up going to Downsview[...]", it has been decided long ago that there will be a stop at Downsview Park, if Aikins' comments are correct, someone at the CBC needs to write an article on the millions of dollars that have been thrown away stupidly building a GO station that might never be used. Also, why does she comment on how poorly used the station is, and the shift to Downsview Park, if they don't plan to close it? She's clearly trying to discreetly rationalize the closure while maintaining the "stay tuned" PR spin. Finally, at the end of the day, Ms. Aikins' recent statements have left much to be desired in terms of validity and worth.

 

[aquateam]

I think how it is now makes more sense. Sheppard West (formerly Downsview) is the concession road stop, Downsview Park is not in the concession, it's more of a mid-block intermediate stop.

The precedence of the Spadina Line has been to attribute "West" to where the concession stops occur (St Clair West, Eglinton West and Lawrence West) while the midblocks (Glencairn, Yorkdale) get stand-alone unique names. Ergo, how the planners have implemented things will make wayfinding easier overall.

They add "West" to the name whenever there was already a station with that name on the Yonge line. Both Downsview and Downsview Park are at the same "concession", so that doesn't show how you'd give priority, unless you renamed Downsview as "Dufferin North" or "Allen".

That's precisely the reason Downsview Park shouldn't be called Sheppard West. Subway stops are named after the street they cross, not which streets they run along or under.

That's correct, which is why it's dumbfounding that Metrolinx proposed having the word "Eglinton" added to each surface stop on line 5. But for the TYSSE, it's not as straightforward though since this line is undulating on a diagonal instead of straight north/south or east/west under a major street like the other subways. If the TYSSE took a route that veered west so that it hit Sheppard on a north/south direction for Downsview park, would it have a better claim to be called Sheppard West? The exact angle that it hits the intersection at shouldn't impact the naming, since it's not something you care about when you're underground.

When the extension was first proposed, the TTC hadn't thought of how to deal with it yet.

An interesting note: When Downsview station was first built, the TTC didn't want to call it Sheppard West because it was expected that the Sheppard line was going to be extended west in the not-to-distant future, so they wanted a neutral name for the eventual interchange station. But as the years went by and the Sheppard extension seemed less likely, and the Spadina extension was started, with a new station closer to Downsview Park, they realized changing the station names now made more sense.

I can just imagine how the announcements on a completed Sheppard Subway would sound "Heading westbound on Sheppard from Sheppard station to Sheppard West station"

 

[nfitz]

It may be on the other side of the street, but its still as far from the main park grounds.

Same side of Sheppard - but not adjacent to the street. I thought there was to be some other structures between Sheppard and the Downsview Park station. It's about the same distance from the corner of the park as it is to Sheppard.

I'd think Sheppard West makes more sense as a name for Downsview than Downsview Park. Whether or not the needed to rename it or not is another question. It's not like it costs much money.

That said, it's not really the name, but the logic behind the name change that I find baffling. They're spending $800,000 to avoid "confusion" of people not able to know the difference between Downsview Station and Downsview Park Station ...

No they are not ... that's the pricetag to reprogramme everything for the new stations and Downsview. I'd assume the simple cost to rename an existing station is a very, very, small part of that.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That seems to implicitly say that there won't be any free transfers between Go Transit/YRT/Zum and York University, at least without some further negotiation/agreement.

On a related note, I found this article from a couple of months ago, which says that "nothing has been decided" with regard to the York University Go Train station.

That's just about capital and operating of the direct infrastructure. Bus operating and fare agreements is separate.

 

[Johnny Au]

They're not saying that though. That's why "formerly Downsview" is on every single sign. Yes, *eventually* people will get used to Downsview being Sheppard West, just like they got used to Sheppard being Sheppard-Yonge. But it's a lot better to force a change than to have two nearly-identical station names right next to each other.

We live in a city where a significant number of people can't tell the difference between The West Mall and The Westway, or between Church Street Downtown and Church Street in North York. Having Downsview Station and Downsview Park Station in the same general area is a bad idea.

...or between the City of Vaughan and Vaughan Road (though the latter is named after the former).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Update from Vaughan Metropolitan Centre Station:

(It's just a joke don't hate me please )

 

[OakvilleGreg]

Update from Vaughan Metropolitan Centre Station:


(It's just a joke don't hate me please )

I think that your photo is from the 407 Station. Serving farmers and wildlife in the GTA.

 

[ShonTron]

A new TTC report, part of next week's Commission meeting, is on line. New details about bus re-routings. Some routes will be re-named as well.

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...hanges_to_Bus_Routes_for_Line_1_Extension.pdf

Interestingly, it notes that the discussions on fare integration between YRT, GO and the TTC are still ongoing, important because GO Transit and some YRT riders will be required to transfer to the subway to get to the York University campus who now get a direct one-seat ride.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And Project Update (with lots of pics):

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...ect_Progress_Update_for_Toronto_York_Spad.pdf

Timeline:

AoD

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

No rush on the fare issue, boys!

 

[gweed123]

A new TTC report, part of next week's Commission meeting, is on line. New details about bus re-routings. Some routes will be re-named as well.

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...hanges_to_Bus_Routes_for_Line_1_Extension.pdf

Interestingly, it notes that the discussions on fare integration between YRT, GO and the TTC are still ongoing, important because GO Transit and some YRT riders will be required to transfer to the subway to get to the York University campus who now get a direct one-seat ride.

I wonder how many YRT riders will just get off at Pioneer Village and walk into campus instead of dealing with the fare boundary issue. Also interesting to note that YRT isn't allowed south of Steeles, but Zum is.

 

[ShonTron]

I wonder how many YRT riders will just get off at Pioneer Village and walk into campus instead of dealing with the fare boundary issue. Also interesting to note that YRT isn't allowed south of Steeles, but Zum is.

The map shows six YRT routes following the York U ring road, along with 501/A. There are some YRT routes though that used to enter the campus, like Route 10, but will instead serve VMC. I guess they could transfer to YRT 20, 100, or 165, though.

 

[gweed123]

The map shows six YRT routes following the York U ring road, along with 501/A. There are some YRT routes though that used to enter the campus, like Route 10, but will instead serve VMC. I guess they could transfer to YRT 20, 100, or 165, though.

Missed that, my bad!

 

[nfitz]

And Project Update (with lots of pics):Trial running in November, followed by opening in December?

That seems tight. Sheppard opened in November 22, 2002. I recall being in the old cinema at Bayview Village a while before it opened - late summer I think, and and you could hear/feel the trains running.

When did Sheppard start? I can find a February 2001 article, saying that trains would start running in November 2001, ahead of a Julyish 2002 opening. That's 7-8 months of testing. (and obviously things slipped by 4 months or so.

Oh wait - May 7, 2002 Toronto Star article titled 'All aboard: Sheppard subway gets ready to roll' notes that:

TTC engineers have been running empty trains through the gleaming new line for more than a month now. .... "There are probably more than 10,000 individual things that have to be tested before the first revenue train comes through here" says chief project manager Andy Bertolo. "And we don't just need to make sure they work, we need to make sure they work after some wear and tear of use, so we have to do things again and again. ... What passengers will see when Sheppard does open—probably in November or December now ..."​

So that's about 7 months of trial running on Sheppard. How do they only need a month for Spadina? Something doesn't feel right about this.

Hmm, perhaps I've misunderstood - is that running the trains in regular service mode ... and the running of trains started on March 28 when they energized the track ... yeah, I guess that must be it.