Mississauga Mississauga Transitway | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | IBI Group

[unimaginative2]

Or alternatively, Metrolinx could negotiate with CN and CP where they would sell railway infrastructure to Metrolinx for $1, where CN and CP freight trains could use the shared freight bypass for free for a certain number of years and be banished from within the bypass.

The big problem is that CN and CP want to maintain a fully-owned line through their biggest market. I don't think they'd accept a shared route. If they built two parallel but separate lines, like the Galt and Weston subs south of the Junction, it could work.

 

[RedRocket191]

Tuscani01 and I went to the open house tonight, and I think I speak for both of us when I say this:

The City of Mississauga has managed to take an idea which had some good points, crippled it, and finally, just for good measure, ensured it will only serve one type of customer making one type of trip.

It doesn't look like they will be using special buses, because they want neighbourhood buses to use the transitway to get to Square One. As a result, it seems that they don't see the point of using premium vehicles.

It doesn't look like they are even talking to the TTC, because when Tuscani asked about integration to the Eglinton-Crosstown line, he kept talking about Presto. I pressed the gentleman, and couldn't get a straight answer from him. All I wanted to know was if it would be a cross-platform transfer.

These are just two examples, but I think it shows that the "Mississauga in a bubble" sentiment held by Hazel has filtered down to city employees.

Many people would argue that Transit City is not an effective transit plan. What you must remember is that Transit City is not only designed to move people. It is also designed to encourage the type of development that the official plan calls for (which is mid-rise, evenly spaced across the street - NOT extreme high density nodes with nothing in between). If you evaluate transit city by its intentions, then you begin to see why it was proposed the way it was proposed.

Why did I bring it up? Because, I want to evaluate the Transitway by its intentions. It is intended to move people from the west end and Square One to the airport corporate centre and to the TTC with 35 minutes end-to-end run time. It will be great for getting people to the subway, but unless the ambiguity around the Renforth Gateway isn't solved, it will be an epic fail in getting people to all the TTC services.

But, all is not lost. They haven't entered into the detailed design phase, so there's still time to correct the flaws. They are doing a great job, but I fear that the toolbox they are using doesn't have all the tools they'll need.

 

[Tuscani01]

Tuscani01 and I went to the open house tonight, and I think I speak for both of us when I say this:

The City of Mississauga has managed to take an idea which had some good points, crippled it, and finally, just for good measure, ensured it will only serve one type of customer making one type of trip.

It doesn't look like they will be using special buses, because they want neighbourhood buses to use the transitway to get to Square One. As a result, it seems that they don't see the point of using premium vehicles.

It doesn't look like they are even talking to the TTC, because when Tuscani asked about integration to the Eglinton-Crosstown line, he kept talking about Presto. I pressed the gentleman, and couldn't get a straight answer from him. All I wanted to know was if it would be a cross-platform transfer.

These are just two examples, but I think it shows that the "Mississauga in a bubble" sentiment held by Hazel has filtered down to city employees.

Many people would argue that Transit City is not an effective transit plan. What you must remember is that Transit City is not only designed to move people. It is also designed to encourage the type of development that the official plan calls for (which is mid-rise, evenly spaced across the street - NOT extreme high density nodes with nothing in between). If you evaluate transit city by its intentions, then you begin to see why it was proposed the way it was proposed.

Why did I bring it up? Because, I want to evaluate the Transitway by its intentions. It is intended to move people from the west end and Square One to the airport corporate centre and to the TTC with 35 minutes end-to-end run time. It will be great for getting people to the subway, but unless the ambiguity around the Renforth Gateway isn't solved, it will be an epic fail in getting people to all the TTC services.

But, all is not lost. They haven't entered into the detailed design phase, so there's still time to correct the flaws. They are doing a great job, but I fear that the toolbox they are using doesn't have all the tools they'll need.

I got home and thought about it more, and im actually pissed that he couldn't address my concern over the connection to the Eglinton Crosstown line. Its as if city staff have no clue what is happening outside of Mississauga.

I should have shown my diagram:

Mississauga Transitway -------->[X] ? [X]<--------- Eglinton Crosstown LRT
Where is the connection?


It seems like they danced around with people's question about there not being a Mavis stop. The only thing I got from them was it isnt being considered because of cost, and that people living north on Mavis would have access to the Erin Mills stop????

What???

Say that again???

Im going to go all the way to Erin Mills to get on a bus that will only bring me back toward Mavis? If anything I would just go to the city centre.

Then we have the lady behind me who asked if there would be co-ordination with the TTC to ensure that schedules would connect so you wouldnt be dropped off at Renforth and then have to wait for a TTC bus to show up. The answer to her question was "The BRT will run every 7 minutes".

I gotta stop ranting now.

 

[ShonTron]

Tuscani01 and I went to the open house tonight, and I think I speak for both of us when I say this:

The City of Mississauga has managed to take an idea which had some good points, crippled it, and finally, just for good measure, ensured it will only serve one type of customer making one type of trip.

It doesn't look like they will be using special buses, because they want neighbourhood buses to use the transitway to get to Square One. As a result, it seems that they don't see the point of using premium vehicles.

Thank you for going. I had every intention of doing so myself, but other things got in the way. I'm not surprised by your analysis, it seems to fit my busway song to a T. Good that a Mississaugan was asking tough questions, better than an outsider in a Lyle Lanley impersonation.

The Transitway is worse than Transit City. How are you going to get any sort of benefit from a route stuck in a highway and hydro corridor for routes that make little sense? And no stations between Erin Mills and Square One is laughable - Mississauga and Creditview are obvious, not to mention Mavis.

Hopefully, they'll correct the flaws. I will try to make the next round.

 

[RedRocket191]

... and another thing. I told them a story on how two ladies were talking about the GO double deckers today on the platform, and i had never heard anyone talk about GO buses before. I said that they needed some kind of vehicle to get people excited about riding the transitway.

His response was along the lines of:

"Well that's GO transit, so it's different."

... and one more thing. There was strong support for a stop at Mavis, but it doesn't work if they are going to use the bus bypass shoulders - and they seem hell bent on using them. So that support seemed to be dismissed.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of the transitway. I just think they need to broaden their horizons and think about how it fits into the network. The guiding principles for the stations are very nice, as a former professor wrote them (is my bias showing?)

 

[Tuscani01]

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of the transitway. I just think they need to broaden their horizons and think about how it fits into the network. The guiding principles for the stations are very nice, as a former professor wrote them (is my bias showing?)

I also think the guiding principles were great!

 

[FutureMayor]

Mississauga Transitway Public Meeting

I got a totally different perspective from the meeting.

I thought city staff did an excellent job answering most questions, especially when most of the questions are all hypothetical (schedules and designs) and won’t really be answered until 2012.

Out of the three facilitators in the smaller group, I believe I had the best one. He answered in detail every single one of my hard hitting questions; unfortunately for RedRocket and Tuscan probably had the weakest staff facilitator.

The questions relating to future schedules in 2012 should have been answered by the women in charge of scheduling for Mississauga Transit on the other side of the room. I was really impressed with the schedule chart shown in the power point presentation. It gives you a good and clear idea of the possible route opportunities across the system.

As for collaboration, I was impressed to hear that close discussions are currently taking place with MTO and the TTC about access to the 427 and re-establishing the HOV lanes on Dundas to the new Kipling Station. The connection to the TTC’s Eglinton LRT via Renforth Station was mentioned in the staff presentation, so clearly they have already thought about the future connection. The GO Transit rep was in my group, and he answered all questions about future fare integration via the Presto card, and surprise it is the TTC that is the biggest obstacle!

As for premium vehicles, that was actually one of my first questions and the response was that there will be special vehicle design for the BRT service. Even the presentation materials had a stylized vehicle design.

As for the missing links west of the City Centre, staff did not rule out possibility that future stations could be built at Mavis and Mississauga Road. At the moment, it does come down to funding. Stations were cut out in 2004 to bring down the budget to a more reasonable figure. As my staff facilitator pointed out, building a new bridge over the Credit River would be financially enormous.

My biggest concern was the lack of a Hurontario Station. I was assured that re-designing or building a new City Centre terminal would be studied to integrate the BRT and LRT. My staff facilitator indicated to me, that a Hurontario LRT would probably make a detour into the City Centre via Rathburn, wrap around the Centre and rejoin Hurontario via Burnhamthrope Road.

Central Parkway Station will probably be a very busy station with two large established residential neighbourhoods on the north and south.
I was also concerned that the Cawthra Station was too isolated and should be relocated to the south of Eastgate, bringing it closer to the residential neighbourhood.

I love how Tahoe Station will have a direct connection with the new RIM Office Campus, and Etobicoke Station will have a direct connection with the Bell Corporate Campus.

I was pleasantly surprised that a lot of attention was given to station architecture. I stressed that they all shouldn’t look the same, and there should be some variation to each station design.

I’m also excited by the fact that staff and everyone in the room agreed that Public Art and Station amenities (food and drink, washrooms, bike lockers, public art) are essential to making this a success.

Finally, I’m glad many staff agreed that they should stop referring to it as the BRT and to go back to using the term “transitway†in the interim, until a new brand is selected in the fall of 2008.

This project has been a long time coming. I took some time to reminisce with some of the staff that they made a presentation on the proposed transitway to one of my committees a good 5 years ago! It is funny and sad that it will take another 5 years to get the whole thing built and running!

Louroz

 

[doady]

There is a long-term plan for a transitway between a Erin Mills and Square One, and stations at Creditview and Hurontario. However there is no plan for either a Mississauga Rd or Mavis station...

These staff facilitators sound like they don't know what they are talking about. The Hurontario LRT detour onto Rathburn and Burnhamthorpe??? I hope not... building a station at Hurontario is much simpler.

I definitely have to make it the next meeting now to try to stop this stupidity.

 

[RedRocket191]

I definitely have to make it the next meeting now to try to stop this stupidity.

Please sort this out.

The fact that Louroz had a totally different experience than we did shows that the head doesn't know what the tail is doing... and Ryerson University has a monopoly on that sort of sillyness.

 

[Dan416]

Mavis and Creditview and Hurontario are all needed as stops. Mississauga Rd is certainly not. Who on Mississauga Rd is ever going to take a bus, ever? Never! It's completely the wrong market.

Using the same buses as the rest of the fleet? No surprise there at all. This is cost-cutting Mississauga after all.

I'm not really concerned so much with a connection to the Eglinton LRT so much as connection at Kipling. People want to get to the subway, not to Transfer City.

 

[Dan416]

In light of the Mississauga Transitway PIC, I feel I should mention the PIC taking place Thursday April 10, 2008 at Meadowvale Village Hall (6970 2nd Line West) from 4 pm to 8 pm.

ONTARIO GOVERNMENT NOTICE
NOTICE OF PUBLIC INFORMATION CENTRE
Highway 401 Expansion from Highway 401/403/410 Interchange to West of Hurontario Street (Highway 10) & Improvements to MTO Patrol Yard
G.W.P. 2107-05-00 & 2153-07-00

The Ministry of Transportation has retained MMM Group Limited to undertake detail design for the expansion of Highway 401 from Highway 401/403/410 interchange to west of Hurontario Street (Highway 10), and improvements to the MTO Patrol Yard at Highway 401 and Hurontario Street. The project is located in the City of Mississauga, Region of Peel.

The project will involve expansion to a 12-lane express/collector configuration with provision for High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes. A new carpool parking lot will be provided at Hurontario Street. Patrol Yard improvements will include replacement of the maintenance and administrative building.

THE STUDY PROCESS

The study is following the Class Environmental Assessment for Provincial Transportation Facilities (1999, as amended 2000) for Group 'B' Projects. A Transportation Environmental Study Report (TESR) was prepared for the widening of Highway 401 from Highway 401/403/410 intechange to the Credit River. The TESR received formal approval from the Minister of the Environment on July 17, 2007. Prior to construction of the proposed improvements, Design and Construction Reports (DCRs) will be prepared for each construction contract and will be made available for a 30-day public review and comment. The review period and review locations for the DCRs will be announced in local newspapers.

I considered putting this in a separate thread, but just put it here for now.

 

[ShonTron]

Mavis and Creditview and Hurontario are all needed as stops. Mississauga Rd is certainly not. Who on Mississauga Rd is ever going to take a bus, ever? Never! It's completely the wrong market.

Few people would take a bus in the immediate area, but further north is Streetsville, not too far south is Erindale College.

I'm not really concerned so much with a connection to the Eglinton LRT so much as connection at Kipling. People want to get to the subway, not to Transfer City.

It's about connectivity. Not everyone is headed toward the subway, some might have a trip where the Eglinton line goes. Also, Eglinton-Crosstown isn't part of Transfer City, that refers to the mess of subway, RT and LRT out in Scarborough/North York.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

In light of the Mississauga Transitway PIC, I feel I should mention the PIC taking place Thursday April 10, 2008 at Meadowvale Village Hall (6970 2nd Line West) from 4 pm to 8 pm.



I considered putting this in a separate thread, but just put it here for now.

Isn't Hurontario aiming low a little bit. I mean it's arguable that the Express-Collector system could be extend right through Mississuaga or even Mavis at the least.

 

[Dan416]

Isn't Hurontario aiming low a little bit. I mean it's arguable that the Express-Collector system could be extend right through Mississuaga or even Mavis at the least.

Express-Collector IS being done to the Credit River, as stated in the quotation. This PIC is just for the section between 401/403/410 interchange and Hurontario. I imagine the second contract will be for Hurontario to Credit River.

 

[jeicow]

Using the same buses as the rest of the fleet? No surprise there at all. This is cost-cutting Mississauga after all.

To be honest, I don't really see the need for super pimped out buses that cost 1.5 times amount of a regular bus. I think in the end people would be happier with more frequent service on a normal bus, than waiting longer for a "special" bus. That said, I'd like to see MT follow GRT's lead, and move up to Nova Buses for their pre-BRT routes (110, whatever the one in Meadowvale will be called) since they give a more comfortable ride compared to most of the current fleet and seem much more spacious than the current New Flyers and remaining Orions.