Mississauga Mississauga Transitway | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | IBI Group

[Hipster Duck]

I'm regularily driving the 401 westbound during morning rush (and vice-versa in the afternoon). With the exception of downtown, I'd say that the 401 from Kelso to Hurontario is the most congested expressway in the city. And it's not bring traffic in from the suburbs into the city that is the problem, it's simply getting traffic across the Credit River. There are a lot of people who live west of the Credit, and work in Mississauga to the East - and not a lot of lanes crossing the Credit. There's also a lack of interchanges in eastern Mississauga with Hurontario and Dixie backing up massively in rush hour. They are planning to add 2 interchanges to disperse the traffic better.

Sure, increased transit would be a better solution - but it's Mississauga - it will take decades to rebuild the city for transit. An increase in lane capacity (and adding the HOV lanes) is the only real solution here.

That section is always crowded, but I wonder if the lack of expansion plans have something to do with the proximity of the 407 - a privately run toll road - which runs parallel to this stretch, and would be the natural alternative, especially for commuters coming in from the increasingly populated Milton area.

 

[nfitz]

That section is always crowded, but I wonder if the lack of expansion plans have something to do with the proximity of the 407 - a privately run toll road - which runs parallel to this stretch, and would be the natural alternative, especially for commuters coming in from the increasingly populated Milton area.

Lack of expansion plans? There are expansion plans, I thought that was what we were discussing.

My understanding is that 407 is what has delayed expansion so long, with the assumption that the 4 lanes (now expanded to 8 lanes) of 407 between 401 and 427 would serve to reduce the load on the 401; but it has failed to do so, especially with the rapid expansion of Milton.

The problem, of course, with the 401 being so congested, is that it is a primary trade artery into Toronto. The gridlock on that highway entering the city, creates billions of dollars of costs for business - and the road is full of commuters. So how do we deal with it? Perhaps start the express lanes at 427, and no let anyone off until Guelph Line

 

[Dan416]

I don't see a lack of interchanges on the 401 in Mississauga. Every major street has one: Winston Churchill, Mississauga Rd, Mavis, Hurontario, 410, Dixie. Where exactly would you add one? I suppose the new arterial alongside Dixie (Creekbank Rd) might get one once it's expanded north to the 401, but it's awfully close to Dixie itself.

 

[Tuscani01]

I don't see a lack of interchanges on the 401 in Mississauga. Every major street has one: Winston Churchill, Mississauga Rd, Mavis, Hurontario, 410, Dixie. Where exactly would you add one? I suppose the new arterial alongside Dixie (Creekbank Rd) might get one once it's expanded north to the 401, but it's awfully close to Dixie itself.

The airport had plans for an exit to Courtneypark from the 401. It might be built sometime in the near future too.

 

[nfitz]

I don't see a lack of interchanges on the 401 in Mississauga. Every major street has one: Winston Churchill, Mississauga Rd, Mavis, Hurontario, 410, Dixie. Where exactly would you add one?

It's not where I would add one. They've been planning this for a long time now. If you drive along in rush-hour, you'll see that the 401 itself, at least in the reverse direction, is flowing, except for the traffic that backs up with cars trying to get off at Hurontario and Dixie - which creates back-ups, and sudden stops on the highway itself. Dixie to Hurontario is a long way with no exit to local streets.

I can't find the EA information on the web. But from what I've read previously there were 2 new interchanges, plus the addition of 401-east to 403-south (and vice-versa). One of the new interchanges was Kennedy. I have a feeling the other was McLaughlin - but one should check in the EA - that does seem close to Mavis.

 

[Dan416]

Adding an interchange at Kennedy would prove problematic, as there already is a Kennedy & 401 interchange in Scarborough. Maybe if they renamed our Kennedy Rd to Thomas L. Kennedy Parkway or something.

That said, I think Kennedy is physically too close to the 410 interchange. Dunno how that would work.

 

[CDL.TO]

Adding an interchange at Kennedy would prove problematic, as there already is a Kennedy & 401 interchange in Scarborough. Maybe if they renamed our Kennedy Rd to Thomas L. Kennedy Parkway or something.

There's three Ontario Street exits on the QEW between Grimsby and St. Catharines (24 km). One in Grimsby, one in Beamsville, and one in St. Catharines.

 

[Dan416]

There's three Ontario Street exits on the QEW between Grimsby and St. Catharines (24 km). One in Grimsby, one in Beamsville, and one in St. Catharines.

How do people distinguish between them then?

 

[nfitz]

How do people distinguish between them then?

??? One is in Beasmsville, one is in St. Catharines and one is in Grimsby. Also each has a unique identifying number on each interchange.

Seems to be a lot easier than trying to differentiate between the 3 Leslie Streets and lord knows how many Woodbines in Toronto.

I don't think we have to spoonfeed people to the point that Mississauga and Scarborough don't have duplicate road names!

 

[W. K. Lis]

Diesel costs increase

The average price of diesel in 2007 was 92.5¢. Today it is 135.2¢. An increase of 46%.

The average demand price for electricity in May, 2007 was 4.67¢. Today it is 5.04¢. An increase of 8%.

Even before the increases, the operating and maintenance costs of a light rail system was cheaper that a bus.

Do they still want a BRT in Mississauga, and not a LRT? And there are rumors that it could go over 150¢ by mid-summer.

 

[RedRocket191]

From what I can gather (which is very difficult, just ask Tuscani), the whole point of the busway is to have feeder buses from every corner of the city use the busway to get to to Square One and the subway.

Their plan is to operate it like Ottawa operates its Transitway - you'll be able to get downtown by a single bus from most parts of the city. That's why it has to be a busway, at least for now.

 

[drum118]

The average price of diesel in 2007 was 92.5¢. Today it is 135.2¢. An increase of 46%.

The average demand price for electricity in May, 2007 was 4.67¢. Today it is 5.04¢. An increase of 8%.

Even before the increases, the operating and maintenance costs of a light rail system was cheaper that a bus.

Do they still want a BRT in Mississauga, and not a LRT? And there are rumors that it could go over 150¢ by mid-summer.

Back in 2004 I said the BRT should be LRT from day one. I still see the same thing.

From a capital cost point, LRT is cheaper. On operating cost, the same thing.

Over the course of 25 years allowing for increase of capital cost for replacement, a 3% increase of wages, taking a guess where fuel would be at a lower rate than what happen and a few other things, LRT would save $250 million over an BRT system operating every 5 minutes.

Using GO figures that end up being lower than the first EA, you would see a double deck bus every 45 seconds.

I used 40', 60', double deck buses vs 1-5 car LRT's.

GO argument has been that one end will have poor ridership and you have the ability to add buses for sections that has high ridership. Also, you can branch off the line to service other areas. Yes, BRT can branch off to reduce the transfer needs.

I have been asked by Metrolinx as far back as last year if there was a problem converting the BRT to LRT and said "no". The answers is still "no".

The BRT is still in the design stage and to covert the road to tracks is no big deal. Everything is been design for future LRT needs today. Therefore you move from 20-25 years down the road to today use. Up front capital cost to do it will have to be added as well building the missing section west of Sq One. It will be cheaper and will attract more riders faster.

If you add 20 stops to the 407/403 from Sq One to RHC vs the current 1 stop to the airport that GO has started, you are looking at about 45 minute ride vs the current 30-45 depending on the time of day service. Running 15 minute service vs the current 60 would more attracted.

If I had to waited 55 minutes for that GO bus last Thursday, I would have taken VIVA, TTC and MT home. That waiting would off set my travel saving by using a 403/407 service.

Keep in mind you have to look a labour cost as to what it cost each system as that is where the real cost is. 1 bus driver can move 55-75 seated riders where 1 LRT driver can move 66-396+ riders seated. Add in standees, there is a huge gap in comparison.

How does $2/liter+ sound by 2010? Europe is around $2.25 a liter. US is to see $4-$5 a gal US. We pay about $4.80 for a US gal now. Driving in the states on a trip is saving you money compare for the same trip here.

Funny part, no one thinks twice as to how much you have to pay for a bottle of water. Water cost 2-4 times as much as gas depending where and how you buy your water.

 

[drum118]

From what I can gather (which is very difficult, just ask Tuscani), the whole point of the busway is to have feeder buses from every corner of the city use the busway to get to to Square One and the subway.

Their plan is to operate it like Ottawa operates its Transitway - you'll be able to get downtown by a single bus from most parts of the city. That's why it has to be a busway, at least for now.

From what I have seen and heard, 3 branch line for sure with a possibility of 2 more. 110 is one of them. The Meadowville route will start this fall. Dixie Rd is still down the road.

110 is to go to the airport at some unknown date. 110 see next to no riders south of UTM and one reason 13 was revise.

The 403/407 is supposed to be and must be part of a strong backbone.

Running a BRT from Ridgeway to Kipping will see poor ridership west of Sq One due to the fact it is quicker to use the current east-west route than do the extra transfer to get to the BRT. Using the 110 from South Common Mall to Sq One save you 9 minutes. If you live west of SCM you can save travel time if the 110 is there when your bus pulls in. If not, you are better off riding the 26 to Sq One. If you live east of SCM, you are better off using the 26 than to back track to SCM for the 110.

The same applies to Erin Mill area.

This assuming riders are going to Sq One.

Going to Kipping, it will add some riders compare how they travel now.

Going east becomes a different case and depends where service ends up.

Having more stops along the 407 will draw riders, but got to make sure it under 30 minutes. 60 doesn't cut it.

 

[doady]

Running a BRT from Ridgeway to Kipping will see poor ridership west of Sq One due to the fact it is quicker to use the current east-west route than do the extra transfer to get to the BRT. Using the 110 from South Common Mall to Sq One save you 9 minutes. If you live west of SCM you can save travel time if the 110 is there when your bus pulls in. If not, you are better off riding the 26 to Sq One. If you live east of SCM, you are better off using the 26 than to back track to SCM for the 110.

You're crazy. The 26 takes forever compared to the 110, especially during rush hour. The bus spends 10 minutes alone trying to get through the Grand Park and Mavis section, which is the time it takes the 110 to travel between Square One and South Common.

 

[drum118]

You're crazy. The 26 takes forever compared to the 110, especially during rush hour. The bus spends 10 minutes alone trying to get through the Grand Park and Mavis section, which is the time it takes the 110 to travel between Square One and South Common.

110 operates 25-30 minutes where 26 operates every 13 minute. I said if you live east of SCM you are better off using the 26 than back track. With various changes plan for Burnhamthorpe, that lost time can be over come.

On average, 26 takes 19 minutes if the bus does the posted speed limit. Bulk of ridership is east of SCM in the first place.

I have yet to ride 110 at peak and don't what the travel time is. Off peak was 11 minutes.

Riders who get on the 26 east of Sq One going west will stay on the 26 regardless of time saving. One less transfer and waiting time.

Spend some time riding the 26 at various time and you will see what I mean.

I have spent a lot of time as well data collection over the years on various MT routes to backup my statement.