adHominem
Senior Member
Evergreen trees! That's a pleasant change.
Toronto John Innes Recreation Centre & Moss Park Arena Revitalization | 21.35m | 4s | City of Toronto | MJMA
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
So the crackheads have another place to hide while smoking up?
modernizt
Senior Member
If that's your approach to how this park should be planned and the attitude we should have toward some of our residents in this neighbourhood, you probably won't want to attend the public consultations.
I've been very impressed with the neighbourhood residents and community groups' commitment to making this park a space for everyone, including those who might be struggling with addiction, those who are sex workers, those who are impoverished. If the park doesn't serve everyone in some capacity, it's not the best space it can be.
Are there unsavoury activities that take place in the park? Yes, as there are in many public spaces. The question is how to address that in a positive way through design and programming of the space. We're not going to eliminate the use of hard drugs through the design of the park, but we don't need to be condescending to some of the population who use the park.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Its not condescending but rather stating a fact. How many times have I exited a side door with my seven year old only to encounter people doing their thing. Planting evergreens just makes it easier to smoke up while hiding from the street.
Lenser
Senior Member
Well, regardless - let's keep planting trees, please. Worrying about malfeasance hidden behind evergreens is a poor reason to refrain from planting them; seems to me a healthy ecology involves a mixed variety of tree species rather than some kind of antiseptic monoculture approach. But I'd love to see a greens expert weigh in on the subject.
People are going to keep doing their thing and, for the most part, you're going to have to deal. This is the pact we make in a city.
I said evergreens. No problem with the other kind.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
Looks like a terrific project. A variety of trees is preferable, I do like the idea of green trees year round- much more appealing. I think lighted areas would better discourage malfeasance rather than excluding interspersed evergreens, they're not proposing thick hedges I gather.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
Didn't the TTC suggest a few months ago it was going to put the main entrance for the Queen/Sherbourne station in the southeast corner of the block and integrate it with the new community center? I like how well they are integrating the planning processes....
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Queen Sherbourne Station
Don't know if that level of integration with DRL is necessary.
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ShonTron
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This is a fantastic project. A larger, brighter recreation centre up against the armoury, with a larger, open park that should be far more welcoming to more people. The consultation process has been wonderful after the initial mistakes.
Are there going to be "crackheads" shooting up? Yes, and you can't wish that away, and unless you move all the shelters, drop-in centres, transitional housing and rooming houses away to some make-believe land (because I'd like to see a neighbourhood volunteer to take on some of the load) that's still going to be an issue. I'd rather it be discreet, or better, in a safe injection site than in a park, sure, but evergreen trees would be nice here to mix up the greenery.
Are there going to be "crackheads" shooting up? Yes, and you can't wish that away, and unless you move all the shelters, drop-in centres, transitional housing and rooming houses away to some make-believe land (because I'd like to see a neighbourhood volunteer to take on some of the load) that's still going to be an issue. I'd rather it be discreet, or better, in a safe injection site than in a park, sure, but evergreen trees would be nice here to mix up the greenery.
Northern Light
Superstar
Why do you imagine that one leads to the other?
I'm going to assume it's because conifers tend to be thicker/denser near their base, when young and in full-sun.
If the species are chosen and sited correctly; and or an appropriate pruning plan put in place, this need not be the case.
White Pines for instance, are fairly aggressive at dropping their lower branches, as soon as they lose full sunlight.
To achieve this effect you simply plant them very closer together (so they block each others light) and most will lose their lower branches all on their own
within 10 years.
They can also sustain pruning.
If your concerned, that in the interim, some folks may use the cover provided for illicit activities....... you can plant things around said trees if they are in a natural cluster, that would deter that.
Red Raspberry or Blackberry will love that setting when the evergreens are young, they will grow thick, in penetrable are very thorny.
You can also plant Cedars so close they grow into a forest/hedge that's near impenetrable.
***
I hasten to add that illicit activities can and do happen under and behind deciduous trees as well, especially those that offer dense shade, like Norway Maple.
Conifers/Evergreens serve several useful purposes, aside from winter beauty, they are preferred nesting habitat for many species.
Their seeds (inside the cones) are also a winter food source for wildlife.
Correctly placed, they may also survive where other choices would not..........White Spruce, as an example is extremely salt tolerant which is why its an excellent choice along major highways.
While Cedar, once established can put up w/very low nutrient soils. (hence why you see many clinging to the edge of the escarpment)
***
From a landscape point of view, I would really like to ditch the Ginkos, they are the most useless species, not even the insects like them (which is why landscape architects love them, sigh)
I think it would be really nice to have a concentrated area of red oak, planted with Trilliums and Trout Lillies underneath and dotted with choke cherry.
Northern Light
Superstar
What I like in that image is the suggested Seaton Street extension and identifying the clear development block.
I would suggest this done right, could lead to a cascade redevelopment of the Moss Park TCHC site, one where the building roughly at the n/e corner
moves onto that block as new TCHC housing, then the Parliament frontage is freed up for another new TCHC site, which can replace the building fronting Sherbourne with
market-based housing.
As part of the re-do an specific effort could be made to create new (additional) housing that would be permanent housing for some resident of the men's homeless shelter on Sherbourne.
The shelter could then be replaced with a slightly smaller facility (1/2 the size would consistent with current policy goals/standards) but the new shelter could safer, offer greater privacy,
treatment/support for those who may need it, better supports and the ability if residents wish, to remain inside during the day.
I realize all of that is a tad off-topic in relation to the park; but I think it could allay some of the social concerns about park use, by better meaning the needs
of some folks in the area.
I would suggest this done right, could lead to a cascade redevelopment of the Moss Park TCHC site, one where the building roughly at the n/e corner
moves onto that block as new TCHC housing, then the Parliament frontage is freed up for another new TCHC site, which can replace the building fronting Sherbourne with
market-based housing.
As part of the re-do an specific effort could be made to create new (additional) housing that would be permanent housing for some resident of the men's homeless shelter on Sherbourne.
The shelter could then be replaced with a slightly smaller facility (1/2 the size would consistent with current policy goals/standards) but the new shelter could safer, offer greater privacy,
treatment/support for those who may need it, better supports and the ability if residents wish, to remain inside during the day.
I realize all of that is a tad off-topic in relation to the park; but I think it could allay some of the social concerns about park use, by better meaning the needs
of some folks in the area.
ADRM
Senior Member
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I actually have some concerns about that space in particular - like just how well used it would be? Wouldn't surprise me if the only users ended up being skateboarders.
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