Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

doady said:
Yes, look at map provided. The length of regional roads in Mississauga is roughly one-third that of Brampton and less than one-quarter that of Caledon. Regional roads in Mississauga only make up around one-tenth of the regional roads in Peel, despite the fact that Mississauga contains more than half the population of the region. Look at Winston Churchill, which is regional road in Brampton and Caledon but not in Mississauga.
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Part of this is because of the much higher number of provincial highways in Mississauga; even the 407 which is the biggest provincial highway in Brampton runs along the Mississauga border. Area wise, Brampton is larger, so one would expect a few more roads.
 
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jeicow said:
Actually, Mississauga is the larger of the two.
Mississauga: 288.42 km^2
Brampton: 266.71 km^2
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So it is! I guess it's Caledon that is larger.

Not sure why Tron thinks the horse is dead ... there's only been a few of posts about this. If you want dead horses, check out the 1 Bloor East thread ... 256 pages of a dead horse.
 
ShonTron said:
The Regional Road system is merely the legacy of the former County Road system. Country roads were the most important ones of the time - Mississauga Road (County #1, later transferred to the brand new Erin Mills Parkway) connected Port Credit to Streetsville to Caledon, #3, Britannia, connected Streetsville to Highway 10, etc. Winston Churchill (#19) is a county/regional road only where it touches Halton County/Region.

What is now Mississauga had more provincial highways (2, 5, 10, 122) than Brampton (7, 10) and Caledon on a per kilometre basis. Up to the 1990s, the highways within urban areas were downloaded to the cities (Hurontario/Main Street, Dundas, Lakeshore but still signed as provincial routes, but the Harris downloads (50, 7, 136, 24) ended up going to the region for some reason. Oh, and Peel does fund paratransit.

Since regionalization, though, is there a need for the regional road system, especially when many don't cross municipal lines? Caledon can afford to look after their road system.
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I was not questioning the need for a regional road system. I was question the claim that Mississauga is or was a burden to Brampton and Caledon, especially when the region does not provide many services in the first place.
 
I was there also. A better turn out than Mississauga.

My recommendation for Brampton is to use the curb lane and remove the 2 block of on street parking. This way you use the sidewalk as your platform stop with single lane of traffic.

Brampton Folks like to see the same thing even if it repersent 10% of mix traffic.
 
Just bumping

Over the last couple of days there has been a fair bit of "drifting" (borderline threadjacking ;) in the Save our Subways and Spadina Extension threads centred around Hurontario/10/Main discussions.

While I am sure that this was accidental and the conversation just drifted there (did in my case anyway) out of respect to the people who want to keep those threads on topic I thought I would bring this back to page 1 so that people who want to discuss Hurontario/10/Main transit solutions/alternatives can easily find where that should be discussed!
 
I'm reposting this here since SOS is getting a little too antagonistic for my tastes, instead of discussing the proposal.

True on both counts, which is precisely why a subway to MCC does not make any sense. You cannot target as many nodes with the subway as is possible with LRT for both costing and logistical reasons (curvature, box/tunnel size, substations). For Torontonians, there is no better spot on the border than Queensway/West Mall with which to place a stop. West Mall/Dundas is nowhere's ville and Markland Wood has zero redevelopment potential. The subway naturally belongs down there. What could be done however is to place a high-speed limited-stopping LRT line alongside the same stretch of the Milton sub, starting from where the subway ends (either at Sherway Gdns or Dixie GO Stn) and continuing onwards to a potential Hurontario LRT tunnel. Stations en route could be at Haines (access to Dundas proper would be via the Chinese Cultural Centre and the 51 Tomken bus) and Hensall St (where 8 Cawthra buses could loop into the station a la Lawrence East RT Stn). At Cooksville GO Stn we could actually have 2 LRT stations, upper-level for straight north-south Hurontario trips and the lower-level for the direct MCC-TTC subway commute. The two platforms are necessary because of the angle at which trains would turn onto Hurontario from the rail corridor, such that the northern exits could extend to midway between Fairview and the GO line. While the N-S line has exits onto Hillcrest.

This may sound overly complicated but ultimately it would provide the people of Mississauga with more access points to mass transit than a 1.5-2.0 kilometre apart spaced subway extension that will cost much more. Even following your suggestion Enviro of cutting through the Mississauga Valley area may not be easy to achieve politically (NIMBYism) and could still cost as much as burrowing under a street like Hurontario.

Investing money into a Hurontario LRT subway in fact does away with the signifcance of CCTT as a transit hub. Here's why:
  • Lakeshore Stn- 23, new 14 Lorne Pk
  • Port Credit Stn- direct under the track access to the GO line
  • Mineola Stn- 8 Cawthra (could turnback there via looping Pinewood and Broadmoor)
  • Harborn Stn- 4, 28, 38
  • Paisley Stn- see above
  • Dundas Stn- 1, 1C, 101, 201 or LRT. 44 Mississauga could be extended.
  • Cooksville Stn- 61, 62... 5, 8, 51 via rail corridor spur
  • Central Pkwy Stn- 62, 3
  • Burnhamthrope Stn- 26 (extends south to Matthews Gt & west to Kariya Gt)
  • Robert Speck Stn- 53, 76 (n/b only on regular route)
  • MCC Stn- 6, 26, 28, 61 (s/b only on regular route)
  • SQ1 Stn- 9, 18, 20, 65, 66, 110, GO Transit
  • Kingsbridge terminal- 7, 10, 19A/B, 34, 35, 68, 89

With most bus routes intercepting one or several stations along its way, the significance of CCTT goes down. What I'm suggesting here basically would be a subway in a fully grade-separated ROW throughout the built up area of southern Mississauga. Only diff its a LRT or ICTS-type vehicle (btw could those run down the median of Hwy 10 north of Eglinton, or are they considered too wide?) The third track on which the Dundas spur routes once in the Hurontario tunnel could preform the opposite loop of the N-S routing (i.e. instead of targeting Robert Speck first then Duke of York, it does the reverse clockwise loop then back south to the HRT subway.

So I'll reiterate what I said in the other thread, is this not a better investment for Mississauga taxpayers than a meandering 2-km apart spaced subway line extsnion that'll total even more?
 
Fresh Start said:
I'm reposting this here since SOS is getting a little too antagonistic for my tastes, instead of discussing the proposal.

<snip>

So I'll reiterate what I said in the other thread, is this not a better investment for Mississauga taxpayers than a meandering 2-km apart spaced subway line extsnion that'll total even more?
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This transforms Sauga's disproportionate transit system into a Mini-TTC system (with less delays and fare disruptions). I do agree with most of the suggested stations, except the following:

In case of Harborn, if any intense developments are taking place at the intersection, I would then concur. Same goes for Paisley (this neighbourhood needs re-development, its aging). Otherwise, replace two stations with one (Queensway) instead as having two stations on local residential street intersections feel redundant. Trillium and the health complexes are more attractable than the latter choice.
 
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With a Dundas and Hurontario LRT, upgraded Milton GO Train, and the huge number of express GO and MT buses that will use the transitway, is any subway extension really needed? I rather see that subway money used to further upgrade the GO Train service and to fully complete the transitway.

Dundas

I think there should be BRT west of Hurontario and LRT east of Hurontario to Islington.

The LRT would connect two Urban Growth Centres and the east corridor is where most of the redevelopment potential is anyways. Between Hurontario and Dixie is the busiest section of the corridor, and building a subway to split this section in half with an arbitrary transfer akin to Don Mills and Kennedy is just not a good idea.

The western portion will never see much development and is complicated by UTM so BRT is the best solution here.

Hurontario

I see no need for the LRT to be taken off Hurontario in to serve CCTT/Square One. I don't see the significance of the CCTT being lessened either. After all, the buses still need to connect with each other, connect with the transitway (very important), and also service Square One, not to mention the core of MCC.

Since most CCTT routes intersect with Hurontario street anyways, all that's needed is a transitway station and a minor bus loop at Hurontario/Rathburn for the routes that don't or won't: namely the 6, 9, 66, and the BRT routes. These routes can continue to stop at Square One/CCTT on the street, so there is still a central transfer point for all local bus and express routes, but the new terminal and loop would allow full connection to LRT as well. The LRT would probably have to be underground here though.

The Transitway

The Churchill Meadows and Erin Mills-Hurontario sections are still needed, including a station at Hurontario to connect with LRT.

Milton GO Train

I don't support diverting this line to Square One. With all the regional BRT services and the potential overlap with both LRTs, it is not necessary.
 
Lets look at some things. (Recommended stop) by the consultants

## (My stops) as you need to look at the road system around these stops how riders are going to get there as they are not grid blocks. Also, some have higher ridership than proposed now and in the future. Anything over 400m radius will end up been over 1,000m walking distance. Anything over 10 minute in walking distance will chase riders away and that a known fact.

From Lake Shore
Park St .26km (Recommended stop)##
Inglewood .63 ##
Mineola 1.02 (Recommended stop)##
Stop
Stop ? ##
South Service Rd 2.05 (Recommended stop)##
North Service Rd 2.3 (Recommended stop)
Sherobee 2.64 ##
Queensway 2.95 (Recommended stop)
Pasiley 3.23 (Recommended stop) ##
King St
Dundas 3.93 (Recommended stop) ##
Hillcrest 4.36
John St/Cooksville 4.59 (Recommended stop) ##
Stop 1212 4.82
Fairview 5.09 ##
Central Parkway 5.37 (Recommended stop)
Elm Dr 5.56 ##
Mathew Gates 5.87
Burnhamthorpe 6.03 (Recommended stop) Not a very high transfer point for westbound let alone east.
Robert Speck 6.23
Kingsbridge 7.67 (Recommended stop) ##
Eglinton 8.1 (Recommended stop) ##
Nahainway 8.5
Stop ? 8.71 ##
Trailway 8.95 (Recommended stop) ##
Bristrol 9.32 (Recommended stop)##
Barondale 9.7
Matheson 10.09 (Recommended stop) ##
Watline 10.34
Trader 10.63 (Recommended stop) ##
Britannia 11.15 (Recommended stop) ##
World Vision 12.26 (Recommended stop) ##
Annagem 12.61
Courtneypark 12.84 (Recommended stop) ##
Ambassador 13.16
Superior 13.46 (Recommended stop) ##
Admiral 13.83 ##
Derry 14.22 (Recommended stop) ##
Top Flight 14.86 ##
407 BRT Station 15.02 (Recommended stop) ##
Ray Lawson 16.19 (Recommended stop) ##
Sir Loo 17.33 (Recommended stop) ##
Steeles 17.33 #

As you can see I agree with a fair number of the proposed recommend stops, but others needed to be added or move due higher ridership or walking distance that are not in a straight line or as the crows flies.

You need to know what your ridership is for **ALL** the stops before saying these are the stops locations. Since I have years of data, I can make the call. Cooksville is heading for a major overhaul, but Paisley will see more ridership than Queensway now or in the future.

A number of of stops have the wrong bus location as well what impact the relocation of those bus routes will have on operation as well riders. Central Parkway see's no 62 or 3 on weekdays. 62 will be the next route to be cut.
 
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I say about half of the stops recommended north of Eglinton should be removed. No point in minmizing walking distance along sections where there not many people to begin with. Since all stops are mandatory, there had better be enough people using them.
 
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