Toronto Eglinton Line 5 Crosstown West Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[44 North]

Still think they should look at this as a separate line. At the very least as a modelling and cost-effectiveness concept. If the the Prov is keen on subway-building and not tram-style LRT, then let's see this puppy using actual subway/metro rolling stock. Plan it so that it uses the exact same rolling stock as their Ontario Line. Because, one day, it could potentially be the western arm of said line. Plan it out as such. And we know the Jane LRT never worked south of Eglinton as a surface line and had to be sub-grade. Well, potentially this Eglinton West *subway* could serve that role veering south from Mt Dennis.

LFLRVs are not the right vehicle for going fully grade-separated.

 

[Steve X]

Still think they should look at this as a separate line. At the very least as a modelling and cost-effectiveness concept. If the the Prov is keen on subway-building and not tram-style LRT, then let's see this puppy using actual subway/metro rolling stock. Plan it so that it uses the exact same rolling stock as their Ontario Line. Because, one day, it could potentially be the western arm of said line. Plan it out as such. And we know the Jane LRT never worked south of Eglinton as a surface line and had to be sub-grade. Well, potentially this Eglinton West *subway* could serve that role veering south from Mt Dennis.

LFLRVs are not the right vehicle for going fully grade-separated.

Except the airport segment would likely be built at-grade (From the IBC):

Airport Segment

The Airport Segment follows the original approved alignment in the 2010 EA from Renforth Station in the south up until the northernmost point where Silver Dart Drive parallels Highway 427. The rest of the segment that leads to Pearson Airport remains as a conceptual linkage. Metrolinx and the Greater Toronto Airport Authority (GTAA) are actively collaborating to finalize the Airport Segment’s full alignment as the latter is in the midst of completing its plans for the future RTPC and the former is working with engineering design consultants to develop and refine the alignment of the final segment into the airport and connection to the future RTPC.

With the capital funding arrangement and RTPC site planning uncertain, developing the Airport Segment will take longer and require further analysis. The Renforth-Silver Dart alignment was inherited from the 2010 EA, and additional reviews by the consultants would be required to confirm the deliverability of the alignment considering the complex constraints of the Highway 401-427-27 interchange and the challenging road geometry and built-environment that exist between that interchange and the proposed airport terminus.

There are several preliminary design challenges identified by the consultants for the Renforth-Silver Dart alignment that would need to be addressed (particularly tight radii, steep grades, bridge elevation mismatch at Convair Drive and Matheson Boulevard, short tail track, non-compliant track crossovers and insufficient storage track capacity).

The Renforth-Silver Dart alignment’s key considerations would include MTO highway setbacks and crossing limitations, GTAA flight and electromagnetic interference clearances, potential stop at Airway Centre (an office hub north of Airport Road), power substation requirements and Transport Canada security measure parameters. The present alignment has already factored in the height restriction at the end of runways, which results in an at-grade alignment for much of the Silver Dart alignment.

The engineering design consultants are in the process of developing and evaluating LRT alignment alternatives between Silver Dart and the future RTPC. The preferred option would depend on GTAA’s future development, infrastructure and road network plans (particularly the RTPC design future Finch West LRT interface, the proposed land use plans and the need to serve the Airway Centre).

Further analysis of the Airport Segment options and the identification of mitigation measures for the resulting constraints would rely on potential funding arrangements and synergy with the GTAA’s future plans. Addenda to the 2010 EA would be required for the alignment beyond Silver Dart LRT Stop.

Constructing transit infrastructure next to one of North America’s busiest airports presents its own challenges. Aviation requirements may dictate construction procedures and practices near the airport. This may impact the overall project cost and schedule.

It seems like ML doesn't except a lot of people to be riding beyond Renforth and definitely not want to spend too much money on it. If it actually follows the 2010 EA, the alignment would be in the middle of the road beyond Renforth station.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Perhaps they could make it a spur of UPX instead.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Perhaps they could make it a spur of UPX instead.

Was rejected after John Tory presented his so called "SmartTrack" original plans was discussed, back in 2015.

From link.

People didn't want a "railway" running through their neighbourhoods. Would NOT have been light rail.

See the SmartTrack thread from the beginning (2014) at this link.

Being a "railway", it would need w-i-d-e curves to take the "bend". From link.

 

[Steve X]

Was rejected after John Tory presented his so called "SmartTrack" original plans was discussed, back in 2015.

From link.

People didn't want a "railway" running through their neighbourhoods. Would NOT have been light rail.

See the SmartTrack thread from the beginning (2014) at this link.

The Eglinton extension of ST was so flawed, it is worst than OL. At least OL sounds buildable and made some sense.

The first reason is there isn't any space to build it as Tory didn't realize townhouses were going up. To build a connection with Mt Dennis station, the line would need to go through the Eglinton Flats to curve into the mainline. Thirdly the lack of station for such an expensive project, even the current Eglinton West "subway" made more sense and is a lot more useful. Even if the Richview Expressway corridor remains intact, the line would need to be trenched and grade separated for safety concerns. West of Martingrove would need to be tunneled or have Mimico Creek plus hydro towers relocated to fit an elevated section running double decker GO train coaches.

 

[Coolstar]

Any idea if this extension is going to the airport in one phase or is it ending at Renforth with the airport segment held off until the future? I think we should extend the line directly to the airport depending on the progress of the Transit hub at Pearson and if we can determine the route to the airport in time. Although there's been no news on the transit hub other than additional funding since 2017.

 

[Steve X]

Any idea if this extension is going to the airport in one phase or is it ending at Renforth with the airport segment held off until the future? I think we should extend the line directly to the airport depending on the progress of the Transit hub at Pearson and if we can determine the route to the airport in time. Although there's been no news on the transit hub other than additional funding since 2017.

The RFQ calls for a line to Renforth. The airport hub isn't finalized so they can't ask the industry to bid on a concept

 

[W. K. Lis]

Any idea if this extension is going to the airport in one phase or is it ending at Renforth with the airport segment held off until the future? I think we should extend the line directly to the airport depending on the progress of the Transit hub at Pearson and if we can determine the route to the airport in time. Although there's been no news on the transit hub other than additional funding since 2017.

The Transit Hub will take longer to design, approve, and construct. See link for https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/toronto-pearson-transit-hub-m-s-gtaa.21541/ .

 

[robmausser]

The Eglinton extension of ST was so flawed, it is worst than OL. At least OL sounds buildable and made some sense.

The first reason is there isn't any space to build it as Tory didn't realize townhouses were going up. To build a connection with Mt Dennis station, the line would need to go through the Eglinton Flats to curve into the mainline. Thirdly the lack of station for such an expensive project, even the current Eglinton West "subway" made more sense and is a lot more useful. Even if the Richview Expressway corridor remains intact, the line would need to be trenched and grade separated for safety concerns. West of Martingrove would need to be tunneled or have Mimico Creek plus hydro towers relocated to fit an elevated section running double decker GO train coaches.

Its a shame because there was some merit to the other parts of Smarttrack, but it kinda got lumped in with this crazy idea.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Its a shame because there was some merit to the other parts of Smarttrack, but it kinda got lumped in with this crazy idea.

Mind you, the parts that had real value were already part of GO RER

 

[robmausser]

I disagree.

The downtown stations like Liberty, St.Clair, Unilever, Gerrard etc had the most value as far as I am concerned.

With proper fare integration mind you.

 

[Coolstar]

The RFQ is now closed. https://www.merx.com/public/solicitations/1286100371/abstract

 

[junctionist]

I disagree.

The downtown stations like Liberty, St.Clair, Unilever, Gerrard etc had the most value as far as I am concerned.

With proper fare integration mind you.

We'd have amazing transit if your TTC fare could get you on one of these trains without additional charges (or some nominal amount like $0.25).

That's also how you drive ridership up to make the project look successful and like a good use of taxpayers' dollars to justify further service increases. If people balk at the suggestion, consider this: if it was a TTC subway line, no one would ask you to pay a separate fare. So why not integrate the fares, increase the service, and avoid having to build a more expensive subway line that both Toronto and GTA residents would have to pay for?

The fact that it can take you just as long to travel 10 km to downtown in Toronto by TTC as it takes someone to travel 30 km by GO is terrible. Rather than spending billions on subways, we could improve the situation considerably with RER that's fully integrated with the TTC. It would also make it possible for more people in the suburbs to commute to workplaces that aren't within walking distance of GO stations.

Everyone wins.

 

[robmausser]

We'd have amazing transit if your TTC fare could get you on one of these trains without additional charges (or some nominal amount like $0.25).

That's also how you drive ridership up to make the project look successful and like a good use of taxpayers' dollars to justify further service increases. If people balk at the suggestion, consider this: if it was a TTC subway line, no one would ask you to pay a separate fare. So why not integrate the fares, increase the service, and avoid having to build a more expensive subway line that both Toronto and GTA residents would have to pay for?

The fact that it can take you just as long to travel 10 km to downtown in Toronto by TTC as it takes someone to travel 30 km by GO is terrible. Rather than spending billions on subways, we could improve the situation considerably with RER that's fully integrated with the TTC. It would also make it possible for more people in the suburbs to commute to workplaces that aren't within walking distance of GO stations.

Everyone wins.

Yes, 100%

Unfortunately the way government is setup, the right hand and left hand dont speak

Those in charge of capital cost projects are not communicating with the people who set fare and maintenance, ongoing costs etc.

More ridership = new subway line. Not "lets look at the big picture and how we can use the existing system to its fullest potential"

And I get it, a new subway line is sexy, you can look back at your political legacy and point to some physical thing you built. Maybe when you die they will rename it after you. Fixing whats existing but broken doesn't get the same zeal.

Plus, red tape. Trying to get all these different arms of the government to agree on things, is a nightmare. Its easier to just plow ahead with a multi billion dollar subway line.

Who cares? Its the taxpayers money anyways.

 

[Coolstar]

Updated Addendum: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/greater...-EN-0001-EPRAddendum-NoAttachments-B-AODA.pdf