Toronto Eglinton Line 5 Crosstown West Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[north-of-anything]

Putting this at street level would have been a mistake. It's disappointing that they only want to use cut and cover for stations, but I can't complain otherwise. It will be good to have a fully grade separated link from Yonge Street to Mississauga and Pearson Airport.

I'd rather have Metrolinx putting effort and development behind this project than some other ill-advised, more disruptive one elsewhere in Toronto.

 

[crs1026]

I'm getting tired of reading all the complains of this project. Are we going to keep this up for the next decade? Ford has heard the citizens of Etobicoke loud and clear that they want a subway and decided he will deliver. It seems like the decision is made and will happen before the next election unless COVID-19 blows it way off course. Constantly expressing your hatred on the underground option isn't helping. It's not news and not exciting to read at all.

"has heard the citizens".... my dimpled derrierre. Should we all stand and applaud? This is partisan political puffery.

An Eglinton line has been in the transportation plan since forever. It would be nearing completion if McGuinty hadn't pared back the plan in 2011ish.... a move which neither Ford brother protested at the time. It took John Tory, in a convoluted way, to put it back on the plan. The citizens of Etobicoke didn't say much about it. The City was prepared to pay for it, as a Smarttrack line, but Ford realised that if that happened a) it would not be a subway and b) he wouldn't get the credit for it.

I would be interested how you think this line helps Etobicoke's citizens on, say, Albion Road. Or Dixon Avenue. They outnumber "the people" in Richmond Gardens.

The switch from LRT to subway was to pander to the privileged and affluent citizens in the tony neighbourhoods immediately around Eglinton. The "people" will pay more and by extension will see fewer transit dollars spent in their own areas.

It seems like ML has chosen the cheapest way of TBM with a launch shaft at Renforth and boring the entire ~6.2km tunnel in one go taking around 3 years to build. This effectively puts the construction time in 8-10 years range depending on how much has ML learnt from the crosstown mistakes.

Sure. Bring on the deep, deep station excavations. There is no evidence that this is the cheapest option. Constantly expressing our hatred when politicans choose the least desirable and most extensive option may not be news, nor may it be exciting to read, but it's what we taxpayers do. Up til recently, Ford Nation was all over that.

- Paul

 

[MisterF]

Putting this at street level would have been a mistake. It's disappointing that they only want to use cut and cover for stations, but I can't complain otherwise. It will be good to have a fully grade separated link from Yonge Street to Mississauga and Pearson Airport.

I'd rather have Metrolinx putting effort and development behind this project than some other ill-advised, more disruptive one elsewhere in Toronto.

We already have a grade separated train to Pearson. It's called the UP Express. Yes I know that the response will be that it's more expensive, but when fares are finally integrated (at some point in the future it's going to happen) that point will be moot.

That's not to say that a westward extension of the Crosstown isn't a good idea, but it should be built as cheaply as possible while still being independent of traffic. Cities like Ottawa and Vancouver have this figured out.

 

[robmausser]

My only complaint is the continued tunneled section west of Martin Grove. Is there any explanation about the justification of that?

I see little to no reason to continue to tunnel at great cost per KM there.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Hamilton does not have good transit options currently but it does have good land use patterns and built form to support transit. I would have expected the LRT in Hamilton to revolutionize travel patterns and mode share, not to mention induce a ton of economic development that would have spurred both new residents and new businesses (and therefore more trips).

Eglinton West doesn't really have anything of the same scale. This line is reliant on capturing transfers from the north-south Etobicoke bus routes, and really only has opportunity to intensify lots around Scarlett and Royal York, which won't amount to that much additional riders in the grand scheme of things.

In terms of transformative impact, there is clearly a superior use of money in Ontario within Hamilton.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yet he "heard" the demands of Hamilton loud and clear and won't deliver there.

It speaks to the hypocrisy of him. This one runs right by his house so it's top priority despite having a terrible business case. And of course it has to be a subway.

Meanwhile Hamilton has a fully supported, nearly shovel ready LRT project that would be completely transformational for the community, and Ford goes "eh, screw em".

It's insufferable.

I'm getting tired of reading all the complains of this project. Are we going to keep this up for the next decade? Ford has heard the citizens of Etobicoke loud and clear that they want a subway and decided he will deliver. It seems like the decision is made and will happen before the next election unless COVID-19 blows it way off course. Constantly expressing your hatred on the underground option isn't helping. It's not news and not exciting to read at all.

------
Back on topic.

It seems like ML has chosen the cheapest way of TBM with a launch shaft at Renforth and boring the entire ~6.2km tunnel in one go taking around 3 years to build. This effectively puts the construction time in 8-10 years range depending on how much has ML learnt from the crosstown mistakes.

I don't think we'll see plans of the line reaching the airport till the decides on a location for a new terminal. Either way it won't be part of this contract.

I like how the are keeping the pedestrian bridge west of Scarlett which was originally planned (as stated in the 2010 EA) to be demolished with the surface alignment with no replacements.

ALso, @Steve X why support this and not the Bloor Danforth Extension? This is even worse for Ridership. We won't even have a busy bay at Kipling an Eglinton @OneCity right again. This should be above ground.

 

[W. K. Lis]

My only complaint is the continued tunneled section west of Martin Grove. Is there any explanation about the justification of that?

I see little to no reason to continue to tunnel at great cost per KM there.

The area west of Martin Grove Road is in a flood plain. Just like Eglinton Flats, around Jane, Eglinton, and Scarlett.

From link.

If you follow the link and move along Eglinton Avenue, you will see why there is a LRT bridge over the Black Creek and not underground. Ditto for at Leslie and east of Don Mills, its on the surface and not underground because of possible flooding.

 

[north-of-anything]

We already have a grade separated train to Pearson. It's called the UP Express. Yes I know that the response will be that it's more expensive, but when fares are finally integrated (at some point in the future it's going to happen) that point will be moot.

It helps to have some redundancy in the system, though, especially since I think this might be a faster route for people travelling from the north than to make a detour to Union Station. I also suspect that this extension will be completed before we get integrated fares, so we might as well have a stopgap measure to help grow demand for a cheaper UPX fare.

 

[asher__jo]

This will serve at least twice as many riders from day one, regardless of the alignment/grade separation design.

Sure, but the surface LRT option had higher ridership.

 

[Steve X]

My only complaint is the continued tunneled section west of Martin Grove. Is there any explanation about the justification of that?

I see little to no reason to continue to tunnel at great cost per KM there.

The reason might be it's too complex for ML to think. They'll need to build a launch shaft to avoid the enbridge gas substation, the main gas line, Mimico Creek, the hydro wires, the highway ramps/foundations and avoid a multi year lane closure in one of the city's most busiest intersection while able to setup a crane and haul away million loads of soil for 3-4 years. I would imagine they said screw it, we'll just build the launch shaft in a easier place.

 

[Coolstar]

It's the open house but in video format.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Preliminary conceptual photos on the virtual open house.

View attachment 239176

View attachment 239177

I'm assuming the reason for placing the portal on the NORTH side of Eglinton Avenue West, west of Scarlett Road, is because the high pressure gas pipeline is located on the south side of the roadway. They're assuming placing the roadway over it would be less of a problem than tunnelling on the south side for the light rail.

And appeasing Doug Ford for his edict for invisible rapid transit during his travels in his SUV.

 

[Coolstar]

Kinda unfortunate that it won't go to Pearson immediately, given the history I cam imagine it going to Renforth for a LONG time with the connection to Pearson put off. I do like the integrated transit centre concept at Pearson but why not just make this the first project for that. I'd have to have an LAX scenario where the LRT ends just off airport lands and everyone has to hop on a bus.

Agreed. A second airport Express bus with free fares running out of Renforth or even Mount Dennis to each of the terminals would be adequate for the time being.

 

[Steve X]

RE the UP Express, great service as everyone knows but, I struggle to call it mass transit. It really is like the Heathrow Express built to be a premium limited stop service and that is built into the small stations and *relatively* low frequency. As demand grows over time I see the Crosstown filling the rapid transit at standard costs role and the UP shifting back to a more premium service potentially with another service that sits in the middle and acts as a local.

I think they could really just repurpose the UPX as part of the GO network and introduce business class coaches. This would make the service even more appealing to the upper class while maintaining rapid transit for the common folks. I think they could even offer business class seating in rush hour trains on other lines to generate more income if the demand is there. The crosstown built as a "subway" is still too slow for airport to downtown travels.

 

[asher__jo]

Kinda unfortunate that it won't go to Pearson immediately, given the history I cam imagine it going to Renforth for a LONG time with the connection to Pearson put off. I do like the integrated transit centre concept at Pearson but why not just make this the first project for that. I'd have to have an LAX scenario where the LRT ends just off airport lands and everyone has to hop on a bus.



Sure but, it wouldn't have gotten close to the same ridership.



The numbers as were mentioned are pretty bogus, we are talking about connecting one of the largest (2nd? I think) employment zones in the country to the cities primary rapid transit network as well as Mississauga, 23k a day sounds more than a little off. This line should have solid ridership from day 1.



Yeah because Metrolinx used arbitrary weightings to suggest that ascending an escalator or a few stairs was going to be a major deterrent to ridership, I think the reverse is true and the numerous stops leading to a slow trip would be a bigger deterrent. Given the core of the Crosstown is grade separated why not continue that as far as possible?

I'm referring to numbers the TTC found prior to this even being a Metrolinx project. Why not continue grade seperated? Value for money!