Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[44 North]

Serious how much warmth would we get from heated concrete floors? The only thing it prevents is ice and snow buildups from puddles.

That's the only reason I'd support it (I'm not generally interested in providing warmth to passengers considering it's a high-frequency rt line with an island stop). Would be interested to know how much more it costs to lay this piping in the concrete and how energy intensive it is vs bare concrete. I'd assume it to be very little...just a brine pumped around, perhaps using low wattage PV+storage for power. If the end result is no rocksalt, I'm all ears. Don't care for salt. Ruins shoes, dog paws, looks ugly, bad for environment, those who lay it down dump it unevenly, etc. But I still think the canopy and wall should extend the full 60m, not just for warmth but shade also.

 

[dowlingm]

Stations could be designed similar to those of Curitiba:
...except modified for LRTs.

Look how wide that street is though.

 

[coopEng]

That's the only reason I'd support it (I'm not generally interested in providing warmth to passengers considering it's a high-frequency rt line with an island stop). Would be interested to know how much more it costs to lay this piping in the concrete and how energy intensive it is vs bare concrete. I'd assume it to be very little...just a brine pumped around, perhaps using low wattage PV+storage for power. If the end result is no rocksalt, I'm all ears. Don't care for salt. Ruins shoes, dog paws, looks ugly, bad for environment, those who lay it down dump it unevenly, etc. But I still think the canopy and wall should extend the full 60m, not just for warmth but shade also.

Its a very expensive addition to the project. If you look at the system being used on the GO platforms they are using glycol system which requires a full mechanical system, boiler, pump, etc. to operate. They are using this system because they probably have a building where they can house this equipment and they have a lot of area to heat, If you were to do this for the Crosstown you would probably go with electric heating cables in the concrete - which require high voltage 3 phase power.

So increased costs associated with the installation and then maintenance and energy costs moving forward. Not saying they shouldn't do it - but these add up and should be part of the discussion. (they also breakdown regularly and repairs are not easy/cheap)

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Chicago L has heaters at most of their outdoor stops.

Something we should definitely push for on the Crosstown.

Except that heat rises and cold sinks. Inefficient use of energy. The heat source should be below so that the heat will rise.

Which is why floor or pavement heating is better.

 

[dowlingm]

I wonder if radiant heaters like that are roof mounted to prevent fires from water/salt/paper/clothing nearer floor level?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I wonder if radiant heaters like that are roof mounted to prevent fires from water/salt/paper/clothing nearer floor level?

Or bodily hazard/tampering.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

They use in condo garage and doorway entrances.

 

[Steve X]

Its a very expensive addition to the project. If you look at the system being used on the GO platforms they are using glycol system which requires a full mechanical system, boiler, pump, etc. to operate. They are using this system because they probably have a building where they can house this equipment and they have a lot of area to heat, If you were to do this for the Crosstown you would probably go with electric heating cables in the concrete - which require high voltage 3 phase power.

So increased costs associated with the installation and then maintenance and energy costs moving forward. Not saying they shouldn't do it - but these add up and should be part of the discussion. (they also breakdown regularly and repairs are not easy/cheap)

The building would also have to sit far away from the intersection on the side of the roadway to avoid obscuring traffic. This would add at least 50-100 metre on pipping and the purchase of a parcel of prime land. Alternatively they can build a roof and put the equipment on top or in an underground room (pumping equipment required plus time to excavate).

 

[coopEng]

Except that heat rises and cold sinks. Inefficient use of energy. The heat source should be below so that the heat will rise.

Which is why floor or pavement heating is better.

In ground heating is not used for comfort (well maybe those heated tile floors for washrooms) - it is used to melt snow and ice. If they add heaters similar to those others have posted they can be controlled by switches and timers which should reduce energy costs. Changes are needed for these stops (can't really call them stations) and something as simple as comfort upgrades are a low hanging fruit (although people may start wanting them around the City)

 

[robmausser]

In ground heating is not used for comfort (well maybe those heated tile floors for washrooms) - it is used to melt snow and ice. If they add heaters similar to those others have posted they can be controlled by switches and timers which should reduce energy costs. Changes are needed for these stops (can't really call them stations) and something as simple as comfort upgrades are a low hanging fruit (although people may start wanting them around the City)

Also the heaters posted are radiant heaters do not care about whether air convection rises and cold air falls, they use infrared radiation and just need line of sight to the person they intend to heat.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Took these yesterday and wanted to point out that even though this looks like a very simple and unsophisticated setup, it's probably going to be far better than anything that will be built on the Crosstown line. In my opinion, these are even better than the Viva stops when it comes to warmth in the middle of winter.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Took these yesterday and wanted to point out that even though this looks like a very simple and unsophisticated setup, it's probably going to be far better than anything that will be built on the Crosstown line. In my opinion, these are even better than the Viva stops when it comes to warmth in the middle of winter.

View attachment 108179

View attachment 108180

Promenade Terminal?

 

[robmausser]

Took these yesterday and wanted to point out that even though this looks like a very simple and unsophisticated setup, it's probably going to be far better than anything that will be built on the Crosstown line. In my opinion, these are even better than the Viva stops when it comes to warmth in the middle of winter.

View attachment 108179

View attachment 108180

I would give this a week until it became a homeless person orgy house if it were built in downtown toronto.

Unfortunately thats just the reality of the situation.

 

[adrianaliu]

I would give this a week until it became a homeless person orgy house if it were built in downtown toronto.

Unfortunately thats just the reality of the situation.

wow does the crosstown pass through downtown what really when did they change the plans. id rather be standing in a homeless person orgy house than in the cold weather tho

 

[steveintoronto]

Metrolinx strikes light-rail deal with Alstom, bypassing Bombardier
Oliver Moore - URBAN TRANSPORTATION REPORTER


The Globe and Mail

Published Thursday, May 11, 2017 6:16PM EDT

Last updated Thursday, May 11, 2017 6:48PM EDT

Metrolinx has struck a deal with another manufacturer to provide dozens of vehicles for key Toronto-area transit projects, The Globe and Mail has learned, a sign of how much confidence the agency has lost in problem-plagued Bombardier.

The agreement would see Alstom, which is currently building light rail vehicles for the Ottawa market, produce for southern Ontario as well. At least part of the work will be done at a plant in the Toronto area.

Enough of their vehicles are expected to be delivered that they can be used, if necessary, to open the $5.4-billion Eglinton Crosstown as scheduled in 2021.

The vehicles for the Crosstown, as well as several other lines, were supposed to be built by Bombardier Transportation, under a $770-million deal dating to 2010. But the company has been slow to produce functioning prototype vehicles and Metrolinx is no longer confident the remaining vehicles will be ready in time.
[...]
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...oronto-area-transit-projects/article34960793/