Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[EastYorkTTCFan]

If the Eglinton-Crosstown's surface section had shelters like Curitiba's Bus Rapid Transit system does, that would be pretty neat:

Take note of the turnstiles, making it like a bona fide station versus just a stop. Wow!

a couple of things 1.) it's not wheelchair accessible and 2.) we don't know yet if they will have turnstiles or any type of readers on the platforms they may just go with readers at the doors like with the streetcar fleet as by the time they come into service poel should be used to tapping on to a surface route and transferring to one from a sation by taping onto the vehicle.

 

[crs1026]

I'm also a little dubious about the single end exit and entrance from the pedestrian crossing. How many people will get off each train, and how long will it take for all those people to cross the intersection when they leave? Will the traffic light timing accept this? Is there enough space for incoming passengers and outgoing passengers to pass each other? Why not 2 or 3 exit points or a scramble zone?

Can't think like a streetcar stop here.... hopefully LRT loads are heavier than that. Might not matter at the lighter stops, but it could at the heavier transfer points.

- Paul

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Can't think like a streetcar stop here.... hopefully LRT loads are heavier than that. Might not matter at the lighter stops, but it could at the heavier transfer points.

I'm not sure most streetcar stops on spadina can be pretty busy sometimes I couldn't imagine what it would be like with people having to use turnstiles o afre gate to get off of the platform. Plus the renderings of them don't show anything so I would guess they will go with onboard reader like with the other surface vehicle the TTC operates. Just because it's a different type of line doesn't mean we have to reinvent the wheel plus having poel tap on the vehicle will give an accurate count of how amy poel are on each vehicle.

 

[WislaHD]

Evening rush hour today there was a car accident at the Eglinton and Leslie intersection.

Caused higher traffic conditions all the way from Don Mills to Bayview.

Astounding that we are building rapid transit that could be held up by one single intersection. A rapid transit network is only as strong as it's weakest link.

 

[Tuck]

a couple of things 1.) it's not wheelchair accessible and 2.) we don't know yet if they will have turnstiles or any type of readers on the platforms they may just go with readers at the doors like with the streetcar fleet as by the time they come into service poel should be used to tapping on to a surface route and transferring to one from a sation by taping onto the vehicle.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The point is that an LRT/BRT stop doesn't have to be an elongated bus stop like we're getting. I don't mind too much, but it certainly doesn't help the LRT-is-Streetcar faction.

The Crosstown won't have turnstiles, that would be pointless because you could literally take one step around them. If the stations were more than just level platforms like in the picture, they might be feasible but not here. Presto readers are more likely.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The point is that an LRT/BRT stop doesn't have to be an elongated bus stop like we're getting. I don't mind too much, but it certainly doesn't help the LRT-is-Streetcar faction.

The Crosstown won't have turnstiles, that would be pointless because you could literally take one step around them. If the stations were more than just level platforms like in the picture, they might be feasible but not here. Presto readers are more likely.

I don't know if Metrolinx or the TTC has said specifically yet how the fare will be collected on the crosstown line for the above ground stops. However I would assume they would just put readers on the vehicle at the doors like with the streetcar as by the time they have the line up and running people will be used to it from the current streetcar fleet. We can argue all we want to on this form about it but we won't know who is right or who is wrong until there is some sort of announcement from one or both parties involved in it.

 

[Steve X]

I don't know if Metrolinx or the TTC has said specifically yet how the fare will be collected on the crosstown line for the above ground stops. However I would assume they would just put readers on the vehicle at the doors like with the streetcar as by the time they have the line up and running people will be used to it from the current streetcar fleet. We can argue all we want to on this form about it but we won't know who is right or who is wrong until there is some sort of announcement from one or both parties involved in it.

Since TTC hasn't reveal their plans, it's so pointless to assume. ML has confirm it's TTC who's in charge of fares.

Financially, putting readers at every door makes no sense. This means 8 readers on 76 LRVs totaling 608 readers oppose to 10 stops (4 busy stops) totally 40-60 readers (2 platforms x 2-3 readers). If TTC only installs 4 readers on one side per car, it's still 300 readers and it will be difficult for people to tap when the trains are full). When the line extends westward, the number of vehicles and readers increases significantly more than the number of stops/stations.

Having readers on vehicle allows everyone to jaywalk midblock on and off the platform. TTC, ML and the city will not want that. If TTC enforces tap off on the LRT lines like they will do on the subway, everyone will have to return to the proper platform entrance and will more likely cross at designated areas. Running people are going to get themselves killed, especially by jaywalking or crossing on red on Eglinton which is much more dangerous than the streetcar routes.

I highly don't recommend readers on LRT vehicles for the sakes of safety and reduces service suspensions caused by pedestrian injuries. I hope they consider fencing 10-20m of the ROW from the platform to discourage illegal crossing at the midblock end of the platform. Safety takes priority over similarity with the streetcars. Fare evasion is another issue. I won't go there this time.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Since TTC hasn't reveal their plans, it's so pointless to assume. ML has confirm it's TTC who's in charge of fares.

Financially, putting readers at every door makes no sense. This means 8 readers on 76 LRVs totaling 608 readers oppose to 10 stops (4 busy stops) totally 40-60 readers (2 platforms x 2-3 readers). If TTC only installs 4 readers on one side per car, it's still 300 readers and it will be difficult for people to tap when the trains are full). When the line extends westward, the number of vehicles and readers increases significantly more than the number of stops/stations.

Having readers on vehicle allows everyone to jaywalk midblock on and off the platform. TTC, ML and the city will not want that. If TTC enforces tap off on the LRT lines like they will do on the subway, everyone will have to return to the proper platform entrance and will more likely cross at designated areas. Running people are going to get themselves killed, especially by jaywalking or crossing on red on Eglinton which is much more dangerous than the streetcar routes.

I highly don't recommend readers on LRT vehicles for the sakes of safety and reduces service suspensions caused by pedestrian injuries. I hope they consider fencing 10-20m of the ROW from the platform to discourage illegal crossing at the midblock end of the platform. Safety takes priority over similarity with the streetcars. Fare evasion is another issue. I won't go there this time.

People are likely going to j walk on the right of way no mater why type of readers get put on it, heck pole already do it on Eglington with nothing there currently, people are just lazy here to walk the extra feet to a crosswalk or lights so cross a street because wher they need to go is right across the street from them.

As for tap offs from vehicles the TTC currently doesn't plan to do that. What you are supposed to do is tap onto a bus or streetcar when you board it even if you are in asation, that will be your tap out if you don't take it to another station where you will tap out of the fare gates. That's why I see them putting readers on the cars themselves plus they are easier to find and you will have less pole boarding without having tapped on to the vehicle.

 

[Steve X]

People are likely going to j walk on the right of way no mater why type of readers get put on it, heck pole already do it on Eglington with nothing there currently, people are just lazy here to walk the extra feet to a crosswalk or lights so cross a street because wher they need to go is right across the street from them.

As for tap offs from vehicles the TTC currently doesn't plan to do that. What you are supposed to do is tap onto a bus or streetcar when you board it even if you are in asation, that will be your tap out if you don't take it to another station where you will tap out of the fare gates. That's why I see them putting readers on the cars themselves plus they are easier to find and you will have less pole boarding without having tapped on to the vehicle.

If you thought about it, you can't jaywalk onto the platform cause you can't pay your fare if readers are located at the designated entrance of the platform. People like jaywalking but not a lot of people like stealing from the TTC. It'll be like walking into a fare paid bus terminal except there will be fare inspections. Not to mention they'll be caught when they trying to exit a fare gate at another station.

As for tap off. You're treating the LRT trains as streetcars which they are not. They may resemble a streetcar but the operation is light rail. There are wide platforms at every station with an exit. TTC does plan to have tap offs at every station. The crosstown line is going to be part of the Subway system so people should have to tap off. Being on the surface makes no difference. The underground stations will likely get fare gates (as illustrated in station designs), why would they consider two different fare procedures on the same line? By simply charging them a missed tap off fee (like the GO train), it will defer people from jaywalking as the have to walk to the proper exit. If the TTC does move to a fare by distance or premium rush hour fare, tap out will be mandatory.

People can jaywalk all they want but do they really want to pay more for improper use of the system? Not to mention maintaining 20 times more readers will significantly add to the operating cost while 70% of the line will board from an underground station making the readers for show and tell for most riders.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

As I've said before we don't know yet how fares will be collected in the crosstown line. Until something is said we should really stop speculating about it. If they do put readers on the trains for them then they would just have people use them like they are supposed to with buses and streetcars when they board them in stations, you are supposed to tap your presto card to transfer from the subway station to a bus or streetcar that you are boarding.

 

[nfitz]

Financially, putting readers at every door makes no sense. This means 8 readers on 76 LRVs totaling 608 readers

8 per car? TTC has 6 per car on their 4-door Flexities (there is one on both sides of the wide centre doors, and just a single one at the smaller front and back doors). If you went this way, I'd assume there'd be 12 per car, on these 8-door vehicles. That's 912 readers.

As for tap offs from vehicles the TTC currently doesn't plan to do that.

Not from buses and streetcars, but they have announced that you'll have to tap out of subway stations.

It's not clear what that means for the Eglinton line. You'd have to tap out of the interchange stations like Eglinton and Kennedy. But the others? Tap out at stations but use on-board machines at stops? Outside devices at stops? I guess we'll have to see.

If you thought about it, you can't jaywalk onto the platform cause you can't pay your fare if readers are located at the designated entrance of the platform.

Jaywalking is crossing at a crossing, on red. It is a ticketable offence.

Crossing in other locations, such as mid-block (or the far end of the platform) isn't classified as jaywalking and is perfectly legal, as long as there no signs indicating otherwise. And perfectly safe if no cars are about. Not one person has ever been hit by a car, when there were no cars about. Sadly the same is not true for those crossing on a pedestrian signal at an intersection.

(well, almost no person has been hit by a car, when there were none about - there's one or two odd stories about cars flying off of elevated expressways or bridges, and landing on an unfortunate soul - though it cares not whether you are on the sidewalk, or standing in the middle of the road)

 

[rbt]

Since TTC hasn't reveal their plans, it's so pointless to assume. ML has confirm it's TTC who's in charge of fares.

Yeah, TTC is in charge of the fares BUT Metrolinx hasn't told the TTC how much (or even how, flat rate or per rider) they will be charged for using Metrolinx equipment and maintenance teams.

So, if Metrolinx charges TTC $3.50 per rider for using the Crosstown, is the TTC really still in charge of fares?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Not from buses and streetcars, but they have announced that you'll have to tap out of subway stations.

In the pamphlets they were handing out early on in the presto role out they said you would have to tap onto buses and streetcars in the station before boarding them. I've done it several times when I've used my presto card on the TTC and it registers as a transfer. The idea behind it is that you are taping out of the station by taking the bus or streetcar as not everyone will be tapping out at asation to end their trip that's also why buses have Presto readers on the rear doors as well.

 

[nfitz]

The idea behind it is that you are taping out of the station by taking the bus or streetcar as not everyone will be tapping out at asation to end their trip that's also why buses have Presto readers on the rear doors as well.

You'll either tap out through the fare gate, if you walk out of the station, or on a bus/streetcar in a fare-paid area. I suppose you might have to tap out of Eglinton station on Line 5 too ... we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Steve X]

You'll either tap out through the fare gate, if you walk out of the station, or on a bus/streetcar in a fare-paid area. I suppose you might have to tap out of Eglinton station on Line 5 too ... we'll just have to wait and see.

If they install a bunch of fare gates between Line 5 and Cedarvale, Eglinton and Kennedy station, it will cut down on all the fare evasion. They can install a vending machine there for those who didn't buy or lost their fare (like Translink and buying fare for the wrong zone). TTC will require everyone to carry POP everywhere in the future. Brad Ross has been tweeting this for quite some time.