Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[spider]

An argument could easily be made that the auto-centric culture of the past 50 years was a mere trend and a failed experiment.

I think that this resistance to the auto-centric culture is a recognition that building our cities for the car is unsustainable (both socially and from a transportation point of view) and that we're better off designing our cities for more efficient modes of transport (walking, biking, etc...), like we've been doing for thousands of years.

Yes sir let's all move back into caves, blow up hospitals, schools, hydro, gas and telephone lines. Down with progress and comfort. We will still have our bicycles.

I don't think our ancestors have been riding bikes for thousands of years, cars have been around for over a hundred years not fifty.

 

[ehlow]

No my friend, Spider's fear is not because of your dystopian view of the future it is because he will be 89 years old, not too many people this age still driving. Maybe justifiably so in most cases.

Understood sir.

I wouldn't say my view is dystopian, I just think traffic will continue to get worse in Toronto, which it has throughout my life. The city is growing quickly in population, so I think it's a pretty safe prediction.

I mean, it's not even the future, it's the already happening. Driving along the highways and many other roads during rush hour is already completely gridlocked every day.

 

[nfitz]

No my friend, Spider's fear is not because of your dystopian view of the future it is because he will be 89 years old, not too many people this age still driving. Maybe justifiably so in most cases.

Fortunately we live in a city where the car is not essential. Just got the car back from the garage yesterday (alternator failed) and they had a list of about $1,500 in upcoming repairs (which isn't shocking after nothing major previously on 8-year old car). So it's time to play fix it or trade it.

Sadly i still need a car. Car sharing doesn't work with baby seats, and frequent-enough trips to visit aging parents who selfishly live in the middle of nowhere. But I look forward to the day when I can be car-free, and the freedom that gives!

 

[howl]

I think the problem with many urban critics is they get obsessed by the small details and fail to grasp the big picture. Toronto is a medium sized city in world terms, but it is also one of the fastest growing cities in the world. Certainly one of the fastest in developed world. It could soon reach the echelons of some of the other great cities of the world, not just in terms of population but also in terms of reputation and livability. Assuming we want to reach those echelons, the question before us is how do we get there? Take a look at the characteristic of the largest 50 cities of the world and compare their reputations and livability. What you'll notice is the cities with the best livability are the most progressive when it comes to investing in new ideas and technologies. Cities that are large but are afraid to spend the money on themselves, or are afraid to try new things, often become unlivable slums. If Toronto is going to reach the echelons of the great cities of the world we have to stop worrying about saving pennies or making sure every detail is perfect and start getting stuff done. So what if Eglinton Connects isn't absolutely perfect? An imperfect Eglinton with bike lanes and wide sidewalks is much better than the mess that is there now. If it works it can be the template for other roads. If it fails we'll try a different idea next time.

 

[andrewpmk]

I think the problem with many urban critics is they get obsessed by the small details and fail to grasp the big picture. Toronto is a medium sized city in world terms, but it is also one of the fastest growing cities in the world. Certainly one of the fastest in developed world. It could soon reach the echelons of some of the other great cities of the world, not just in terms of population but also in terms of reputation and livability. Assuming we want to reach those echelons, the question before us is how do we get there? Take a look at the characteristic of the largest 50 cities of the world and compare their reputations and livability. What you'll notice is the cities with the best livability are the most progressive when it comes to investing in new ideas and technologies. Cities that are large but are afraid to spend the money on themselves, or are afraid to try new things, often become unlivable slums. If Toronto is going to reach the echelons of the great cities of the world we have to stop worrying about saving pennies or making sure every detail is perfect and start getting stuff done. So what if Eglinton Connects isn't absolutely perfect? An imperfect Eglinton with bike lanes and wide sidewalks is much better than the mess that is there now. If it works it can be the template for other roads. If it fails we'll try a different idea next time.

If Toronto continues to be one of the fastest growing cities in the world, then Eglinton will be a complete mess. If a few decades from now there are tall buildings all along Eglinton, the LRT will be severely overcrowded. Narrowing Eglinton to 1 lane will make it look like the mess that is Yonge/Bloor (caused by the "pedestrian scrambles" at Yonge/Bloor and Bay/Bloor) and it will be severely gridlocked at all hours of the day, while the bike lane is hilariously underused. Of course, we don't know whether Toronto will grow as fast as it has in the past, because the combination of Toronto's high unemployment rate, terrible traffic and outrageous housing prices might just cause Alberta to grow much more quickly than Toronto. If building partially elevated rail only costs slightly more than LRT and carries twice as many people, why not build elevated rail?

 

[typezed]

Don't you feel a bit extreme, spider, in equating providing bike lanes with returning to living in caves? The idea of progress changes. If you're 79 you would have grown up when the car was king. A&Ws, American Graffiti, up and down Main St, all that. But the Model T is closer to your time than the Pinto or the Gremlin or the Pacer is to someone now in their 20s. In your day the mass produced car had been around for about as long as the desktop computer has been today. Progress now isn't more and more space for cars, growing further and further out, it's learning to moderate the impacts (not just of cars but of many things that half a century ago promised a bright future). Eglinton Connects isn't banning the car. It's providing options. It's making the street more inviting for people.

 

[scamander24]

If Toronto continues to be one of the fastest growing cities in the world, then Eglinton will be a complete mess. If a few decades from now there are tall buildings all along Eglinton, the LRT will be severely overcrowded. Narrowing Eglinton to 1 lane will make it look like the mess that is Yonge/Bloor (caused by the "pedestrian scrambles" at Yonge/Bloor and Bay/Bloor) and it will be severely gridlocked at all hours of the day, while the bike lane is hilariously underused. Of course, we don't know whether Toronto will grow as fast as it has in the past, because the combination of Toronto's high unemployment rate, terrible traffic and outrageous housing prices might just cause Alberta to grow much more quickly than Toronto. If building partially elevated rail only costs slightly more than LRT and carries twice as many people, why not build elevated rail?

It's amazing how you don't even give bike infrastructure a chance when it has worked for so many other cities. It's a separated, safe bike lane, not some line on a road. People will definitely use it, just like how all other bike infrastructure in this city (as well as other cities) ends up being used by cyclists.

As for everything else you said, I don't really know if you're being serious anymore.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I really wish we didn't get these obnoxious notifications whenever someone we've marked as ignored makes a posts in a thread. Also doesn't help that we can see what they write when someone quotes them. Kind of defeats the purpose of the ignore functionality.

 

[spider]

Don't you love it when some earnest young fellow, maybe not even old enough to vote, takes time out of his busy day to explain the ways of the world as he knows them to be. I am patient and grateful for his efforts but unlike him I have been here before, several times.

My two oldest children are now in their fifties and do you know what, they knew everything you know 30 years before you were born and were not the least bit shy about sharing their prescient insights with their good old Dad in a gentle but condescending manner.

They graduated from High School, got a job and moved into their own digs south of the tree line (Bloor Street). Travelled on transit since owning a car was simply beyond the pale and in one case bought and rode an insanely expensive bicycle. They enjoyed their little world until it became tiresome even to them.

Fast forward a few years and they own and drive cars and live in condos. You too can be saved, patience is the word.

 

[Johnny Au]

Let's count how many car advertisements you see.

Let's count how many bicycle advertisements you see.

Car advertisements outnumber bicycle advertisements approximately 20 to 1. On television and in cinemas, that becomes approximately 100 to 1.

To wage the war on cars, one must ban car commercials. That is much easier (and much cheaper) to do than it is to install bollards, repaint lanes, and paying car crash victims. It helps reduce the appeal of cars. Oh, and Pixar should create a film called "Bikes," because "Cars" is creating a demand for private motor vehicles for a new generation, which is very counterproductive. Oh, and car commercials are not good for spendthrifts who don't know what a budget is.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Let's count how many car advertisements you see.

Let's count how many bicycle advertisements you see.

Car advertisements outnumber bicycle advertisements approximately 20 to 1. On television and in cinemas, that becomes approximately 100 to 1.

To wage the war on cars, one must ban car commercials. That is much easier (and much cheaper) to do than it is to install bollards, repaint lanes, and paying car crash victims. It helps reduce the appeal of cars. Oh, and Pixar should create a film called "Bikes," because "Cars" is creating a demand for private motor vehicles for a new generation, which is very counterproductive. Oh, and car commercials are not good for spendthrifts who don't know what a budget is.

I'd rather see "(Street)cars", an adorably animated re-telling of the fight to save Toronto's streetcar system in the 1970s. Hear that Pixar? New moneymaker right here.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

It looks like you can look up how many people ride a bike to work on Statistics Canada by riding (2011 voluntary long form census, so probably not that accurate, look for "NHS Profiles"). It's only 2.1% in Toronto but 7.8% in Trinity-Spadina, and 2.4% in St. Paul's (the riding where most of the Yonge/Eglinton area is located in). It seems like this number is unusually high in a few NDP ridings where Olivia Chow will likely do well but very low elsewhere.

Nothing comparable to traffic data, or TTC ridership figures, then.

 

[typezed]

Don't you love it when some earnest young fellow, maybe not even old enough to vote,

Nah, I'm old, like your sons. But sometimes I find it illuminating to think of how much my framework of what the modern world means differs from people born ten or so years before me and realize how that must mean that people younger than I also find things very real in my memory (Apollo 11, Watergate, Saturday morning cartoons, The Poseidon Adventure, going home for lunch, suntanning, cassette tapes, rotary dial phones) prehistoric. 9-11, so seared in our memories, happened before people soon to become teenagers were born. Cars were freedom and independence to you, they were the most fascinating technology happening. By my time they were beginning to become more of a burden, with the energy crisis and greater environmental awareness. Now for a young person to begin driving they need to pay thousands a year in insurance. Many, especially in urban areas, aren't interested. Things change. But you seem happy to feel that you won out over your sons. Score.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

...Cars were freedom and independence to you, they were the most fascinating technology happening. By my time they were beginning to become more of a burden, with the energy crisis and greater environmental awareness. Now for a young person to begin driving they need to pay thousands a year in insurance. Many, especially in urban areas, aren't interested. Things change. But you seem happy to feel that you won out over your sons. Score.

This is the exactly my experience. Cars ownership is no longer seen as some great accomplishment to aspire to in life. They're mere tools. I find thay only if young people will only get a car if they absolutely NEED it.

I'm a fairly young guy. Of all my friends in their mid twenties I know exactly two who have cars. Both of them are car enthusiasts. The rest of them seem content taking the TTC; even the ones who live ridiculously far from good rapid transit options.

 

[WislaHD]

The only reason I got a drivers license was so I could present ID at bars.

I haven't driven a car in a year and don't intend to in the immediate future.