Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't know where to start with that ridiculous statement.

Let's look at Toronto, where the most expensive wealthy establishment neighbourhoods are within a 15 minute drive from downtown, the "New Money" Bridle Path not much further out than that.

Let's look at Manhattan, where penthouse condos and co-ops go for over $10M easy. Yes, there extremely wealthy suburbs in Long Island, Westchester County, Connecticut and New Jersey, but rich people live in the city too, at least on weekdays.

Mexico City's suburbs are full of slums on the mountain sides.

You really should think about the ridiculous things you say, den.

Your drive by posts are redundant I was talking about places like Vaughan and Oakville. Now New York City, which had over 2000 murders less than 30 years ago. Mexico City has a terrible commute (I've done it) for different reasons but last time I checked, it's still North America.


I don't even know why I'm responding to this troll account anyway.

 

[sixrings]

I don't know where to start with that ridiculous statement.

You really should think about the ridiculous things you say, den.

Except that it isn't that ridiculous.ever hear of white flight?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=White_flight

 

[TheTigerMaster]

NA was the only continent that decided that rich people should live in the suburbs. Unsuprising than Chicago, LA, NYC, Mexico City, Guadalajara and Toronto have the worst commutes on the planet.

I don't know where to start with that ridiculous statement.

Let's look at Toronto, where the most expensive wealthy establishment neighbourhoods are within a 15 minute drive from downtown, the "New Money" Bridle Path not much further out than that.

Let's look at Manhattan, where penthouse condos and co-ops go for over $10M easy. Yes, there extremely wealthy suburbs in Long Island, Westchester County, Connecticut and New Jersey, but rich people live in the city too, at least on weekdays.

Mexico City's suburbs are full of slums on the mountain sides.

You really should think about the ridiculous things you say, den.

I believe den is referring to white flight.

White flight is a term that originated in the United States, starting in the mid-20th century, and applied to the large-scale migration of whites of various European ancestries from racially mixed (generally poorer) urban regions to more racially homogeneous suburban or exurban regions

This was something observed during the post-war growth of the suburbs in most American metro areas. It appears as if Toronto rejected this phenomena.

For illustation, Toronto compared to the typical American cities:

Toronto, obviously:

American cities (red = white, blue = african american, orange = hispanic, green = asian)

So what den said about richer (whiter) people living in the suburbs is generally true, with some exceptions. There's a UT thread about it here. Let's not derail this one

Of course, what Den says about Toronto having "the worst commutes on the planet" is pure conjecture.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't know how Toronto fits in to that comment. Rosedale and even Bridle Path don't seem that far out.

I'm wondering, have you ever left Canada? Do you have first-hand experience to back up your statement? Surprisingly, place like Paris and Milan have worst commutes than Toronto and any other NA city (Mexico City excluded, off course).

That doesn't equate to rich people ever moving out to the suburbs. In those areas it may simply be that the people with least means live on the fringes and have to commute.

Hmm. I've left Canada and married a woman from Paris. As with many places, Paris can be a terrible commute if you insist on driving a car. The regional rail (RER) network is superb, the ability to live in an apartment in the city and take the bus or subway very good for such a huge population.

ECLRT is all about trying to get people out of their cars. In order to make that truly possible, we need the DRL or we need to spread out our core office locations (Great Gulf is taking that second 'virage' with their bold vision for their Don Roadway site.) For the east end, at least, a Don Mills LRT to connect with ECLRT at the OSC is such a no-brainer. Let's get cracking!

That's the key. Of course if you drive in Europe it will be bad. But most don't. The fact is most Toronto drivers still drive.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Thank You TigerMaster.

 

[JasonParis]

Yes I do care even though I am pretty sure that I won't be allowed to drive anywhere in 10 years. I care because the bike lanes are a terrible waste of money tossed onto the pyre of trendy political correctness.

There's huge latent demand for better cycling infrastructure in Toronto period. Moreover, as all of the cities we compete against have come to realize that bike lanes are a relatively cheap, but effective means of getting more people safely through a given corridor. Even many cities with conservative Mayors realize this and this silly discussion comes off as very Rob Ford Toronto 2010.

You can call biking "trendy" if you want, but it's actually part of much larger global trend in western cities that shows no signs of abating, especially in densifying/urbanizing Toronto. You actually think this "bike thing" is a short-term blip and we'll all look back in unison in 10 years and say "man, what a waste of money those lanes were?" And how in hell does any of this have to do with political correctness? Do you even know what it means?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yes I do care even though I am pretty sure that I won't be allowed to drive anywhere in 10 years. I care because the bike lanes are a terrible waste of money tossed onto the pyre of trendy political correctness.

An argument could easily be made that the auto-centric culture of the past 50 years was a mere trend and a failed experiment.

I think that this resistance to the auto-centric culture is a recognition that building our cities for the car is unsustainable (both socially and from a transportation point of view) and that we're better off designing our cities for more efficient modes of transport (walking, biking, etc...), like we've been doing for thousands of years.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

An argument could easily be made that the auto-centric culture of the past 50 years was a mere trend and a failed experiment.

I think that this resistance to the auto-centric culture is a recognition that building our cities for the car is unsustainable (both socially and from a transportation point of view) and that we're better off designing our cities for more efficient modes of transport (walking, biking, etc...), like we've been doing for thousands of years.

The advent of car culture was a failure that had its social as well as political costs. Generation Y and Z will have less kids and need less space, so that's part of it too.

 

[Roundabout]

I know you're kidding, but it doesn't necessarily take any space away from cars:

http://thecrosstown.ca/the-project/stations-and-stops/bayview-station

That's the current plan for bayview station. You can see there's room for bike racks in front of the station.
That's just replacing a McDonalds.

There should probably be a bike parking station at Eglinton station too, maybe where the abandon bus bays are now.

At one of the consultations last fall I specifically asked whether they are planning bike parking for Bayview station. The answer was "yes".

On a side note, I think the design for Bayview station is a wasted opportunity; it should be a multy-floor building.

 

[ehlow]

The suburban middle class flight thing kind of happened in Toronto, but unlike some American cities, Toronto's downtown remained vibrant and full of people, it wasn't nearly as extreme. It was also less about racial issues in Toronto.

There's a trend now towards middle class & white people moving back into downtowns and wanting urban lifestyles, there are several books on this.

In terms of spider being afraid that he "won't be allowed to drive anywhere in 10 years", my personal prediction is that traffic will be so bad in the future that people won't even want to drive. Things that allow you to the possibility to not be in traffic like subways, LRT and BRT will be even more valuable. In a way this is already happening. Traffic will get worse and worse in the future as our population grows.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

Does anyone know if there is any actual data as to the number of cyclists on any given route or at an intersection?

So far, without any real numbers, all of this boils down to "I cycle, ergo untold millions cycle" or "I drive, ergo nobody cycles". It seems that neither side has any particular data beyond the anecdotal in this discussion.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

In terms of spider being afraid that he "won't be allowed to drive anywhere in 10 years", my personal prediction is that traffic will be so bad in the future that people won't even want to drive. Things that allow you to the possibility to not be in traffic like subways, LRT and BRT will be even more valuable. In a way this is already happening. Traffic will get worse and worse in the future as our population grows.

The War on the Car will be glorious. Mark my words, Eglinton, Finch and Sheppard are just the beginning. Soon we'll be expanding LRT and BRT to Eglinton West and Jane and Don Mills. And where there isn't demand for LRT or BRT, we'll still rip up driving lanes for measly bicyclists and bus lanes, just to screw with drivers. Eventually, we'll close entire streets to cars. Do you like driving on Queen or on Yonge? What about the Gardiner? Better enjoy it while it lasts because it won't be long before they're gone. Oh I can hear the screams of horror from drivers and I love it. [Insert sinister laugh]

 

[andrewpmk]

Does anyone know if there is any actual data as to the number of cyclists on any given route or at an intersection?

So far, without any real numbers, all of this boils down to "I cycle, ergo untold millions cycle" or "I drive, ergo nobody cycles". It seems that neither side has any particular data beyond the anecdotal in this discussion.

It is easy to count how many bikes there are in the summer. Generally you see a fair number around U of T and Ryerson and some other parts of downtown, and some neighbourhoods immediately east and west of downtown but very, very few elsewhere in Toronto. Yonge/Eglinton and the surrounding area there are very few (even though this isn't really that rich a neighbourhood - there are very expensive houses here, but there are many low income apartment buildings where students live as well). Never mind Mississauga, where there are bike lanes in some areas where bikes are a very rare sight. Or Statistics Canada keep track of how many people ride bikes to work - tends to be around 1-2% in most places, which is practically a rounding error.

Personally I think that bicycling is a fad and it will go away. The many money-losing bike sharing systems that hardly anyone uses is an obvious sign of this. Riding a bike on busy roads with or without "bike lanes" is too dangerous and most people realize this. Practically everywhere where the bike fad is popular it is easy to get around using transit which is much safer. Many of the "bike lanes" in Toronto where roads were narrowed, such as Dupont, are very underused, and mostly serve to make traffic worse.

 

[andrewpmk]

It looks like you can look up how many people ride a bike to work on Statistics Canada by riding (2011 voluntary long form census, so probably not that accurate, look for "NHS Profiles"). It's only 2.1% in Toronto but 7.8% in Trinity-Spadina, and 2.4% in St. Paul's (the riding where most of the Yonge/Eglinton area is located in). It seems like this number is unusually high in a few NDP ridings where Olivia Chow will likely do well but very low elsewhere.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It seems like this number is unusually high in a few NDP ridings where Olivia Chow will likely do well but very low elsewhere.

Is everything political for you? Do you even know what you're talking about?