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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

asey20 said:
This seems to be a common thing governments do in North America where they help large private corporations with offsetting private project costs and tax incentives in order to encourage development in the area. Otherwise, it is unlikely that Therme would build their Spa development at Ontario Place. Now whether the government is doing this because they do not have enough money to fully build out Ontario Place themselves or whether it's because they think this will save money in development costs, I do not know.


I agree. I don't like the Therme development plans for Ontario Place and the poor use of valuable land. However, I am not even sure if this is a plan that "helps Ford's developer friends". Is there proof that this is the case? On the other hand, now that he has announced that the Science Centre will move to Ontario Place, where is the proof that this latest move will help his developer friends? If either move he makes is helping his developer friends that it seems like there is at least some bias here based off of "assumptions" and "trends". This is mainly to say that I don't think mentioning Ford and his developer friends at every point in this forum is constructive. The way this whole scenario played out might've played out the same whether it is the Conservative, Liberal or NDP government in parliament right now.
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Is there any other explanation for this blatantly corrupt waste of public funds? Surely someone is set to benefit from this, and it certainly isn't the pubic
 
asey20 said:
If either move he makes is helping his developer friends that it seems like there is at least some bias here based off of "assumptions" and "trends". This is mainly to say that I don't think mentioning Ford and his developer friends at every point in this forum is constructive. The way this whole scenario played out might've played out the same whether it is the Conservative, Liberal or NDP government in parliament right now.
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Instead of "Developer Friends," we could say "lobbyists" or "large corporations" or, as he always liked to say of the Liberals, "Special interests."
Either way, it's backroom stuff and while the Liberal governments were hardly immune from such things (remember Kirby GO?) it wasn't a constant barrage like this. I think it's a consistent pattern, especially over the fast few months, of selling our future to these groups and it seems like a safe bet that much of the OSC site (presumably not the valley part) will be sold off for development. If, it being Provincial land us being in a Housing Crisis and all, they turn it into a transit-oriented affodable housing project, I will look pretty paranoid and foolish. But I doubt that's going to happen based on recent rends.
 
asey20 said:
This is mainly to say that I don't think mentioning Ford and his developer friends at every point in this forum is constructive. The way this whole scenario played out might've played out the same whether it is the Conservative, Liberal or NDP government in parliament right now.
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The key differentiator is whether the government is merely supporting an enterprise (subsidy, tax relief, or whatever is very common and not really very controversial by itself, whatever the government) as a matter of deriving mutual benefit - or whether the taxpayer is shelling out to a business that is reaping a lucrative bottom line without giving back anything of real public value.

Ontario Place has been problemmatic for decades - worked well in its heyday, but in an era of Canada's Wonderland and Six Flags level entertainment complexes, it really isn't big enough or flashy enough to house a competing product. (Although it was always a very decent place to take one's family so the kids could enjoy the splashpad, have an ice cream, and not have to drive too far to get home when everyone gets tired). OSC has been lagging as an attraction, but that's a matter of mission and programming rather than finding a new or cheaper venue. Both properties are valuable venues for special events and niche exhibits and school outings.... but clearly won't draw enough revenue from that for upkeep on fairly high end, high maintenance complexes.

While one seldom wants to praise government for foot dragging, the reality is that past governments have erred on the side of preserving the public future while admitting defeat in attracting some viable business. That hasn't yielded a bright future, but I give that more credit than giving away the assets for minimal return.

If you haven't discerned a tectonic shift in how the Ford regime approaches development compared to past governments - and if you aren't concerned by the arbitrary and non-transparent use of power to drive those decisions, well, I don't think we will convince you. If this were in fact merely breaking through logjams (as claimed), I could give some credit - but as pointed out, there is virtually no public value preserved and much past investment being sacrificed. I could give more credit to corrupt regimes elsewhere who were caught taking bribes..... at least they had enough business acument to understand reward and risk. The Ford government is giving it up for free. The failure to extract anything in return is what I most take exception to.

- Paul
 
cplchanb said:
they can rename don mills to DM north or fairview mall since its right at its front doors...
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This is where the nomenclature should just stick to the street, even if it means duplication. The grid street network is so well set up for it that forcing new names just makes things confusing and detracts from the public’s ability to visualize the city and where they are in it. But I digress. I’d accept Don Mills S, since there’s no Don Mills south of here. Leave the original alone.

However, if we are going to insist on using unique names as per Metrolinx’s guides, then we should come up with something interesting for this node, seeing as it’s going to be fairly important. The OSC was really going to tie it all together, but it can still have a sense of place. Maybe if the crosstown moniker is dropped after line 5 opens, the station could be called “crosstown place” “Don Crossings” “the crossways” or integrate the phrase into the name some other way. Something that emphasizes the intermodality of the site.
 
Towered said:
Is this the first we're hearing of this supposed "business case"?
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I mean, depending what hour of the day it is, Doug Ford is either saying this has been in the works for years or he just found out last week or I dunno.

I guess it depends whether you want to be Paranoid and Cynical, assuming this has been the plan all along, and they just had to move their chess pieces into place or...
You can be Resigned and Cynical, assuming there is no master plan and this is all back-of-the-napkin stuff they just fell into or...
Well, I guess you can be in Ford Nation and think this is amazing and brilliant and will do wonders for transit and for the decrepit Ontario Place and rotting hulk of the Science Centre and such.

Maybe there are other options too?
 
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