Toronto 88 Scott Street | 203.9m | 58s | Concert | P + S / IBI

[interchange42]

It's really cool to see 3 buildings (88 Scott, INDX, and Richmond-Adelaide) going up in the Financial District, which is already incredibly dense.

Don't forget about EY

It's not EY that's missing from the list: EY is Richmond-Adelaide. The missing one is Bay Adelaide East.

42

 

[RZ12]

88 Scott has larger suites on average than other recent downtown projects. It's aimed at a more well-heeled executive crowd, so it should end up with fewer renters than most new developments.

42

That's perfect. People need to snap outta of renting and throwing money down the chute when the numbers don't add up anymore.

 

[Big Daddy]

I wonder how true this is, what is the average occupancy per unit (of any size) in a newer downtown condo, as it will vary by the age of the building (as older ones tend to have larger units with more people).



I'd wager you are absolutely correct that it is in the 1 <-> 2 people per unit ... buy maybe closer to 1.5 ... with every other unit having 2 folks ... a lot of folks I know who live downtown live with 2 people, either a room mate / wife / husband / bf / gf ...

I'd say 1.5 or even 1.25 per unit tops. As people get together, they move into one unit - thereby making one available - then they live together one or two years before marriage and then babies.

Once they are pregnant, it's off to the suburbs they go. There has been virtually no planning for young families downtown. They live in suburbia for 15 or twenty years and may then consider buying a condo downtown again - if they can afford it after helping kids through college. If not they wait till they retire and move to a quiter place like Burlington or Georgetown and settle in.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I think its in the 1.5 - 1.7 range right now. Young families often live in 2 bedroom units for at least a little while, there are plenty of young kids running around cityplace if you ever visit it. That drives up occupancy averages, as well as students renting a 2 bedroom + Den with 3 people living in it.

The opportunity is there for families to live in condos, every building has 3 bedroom units, its just that nobody buys them. It costs just as much to buy an inner city home as it does to buy a 3 bedroom condo, and many opt for that. The finances for 3 bedroom condos will start to get better in the next couple of years with stagnating condo prices and skyrocketing home prices, so I can see demand for 3 bedroom units increasing soon.

 

[Big Daddy]

I think its in the 1.5 - 1.7 range right now. Young families often live in 2 bedroom units for at least a little while, there are plenty of young kids running around cityplace if you ever visit it. That drives up occupancy averages, as well as students renting a 2 bedroom + Den with 3 people living in it.

The opportunity is there for families to live in condos, every building has 3 bedroom units, its just that nobody buys them. It costs just as much to buy an inner city home as it does to buy a 3 bedroom condo, and many opt for that. The finances for 3 bedroom condos will start to get better in the next couple of years with stagnating condo prices and skyrocketing home prices, so I can see demand for 3 bedroom units increasing soon.

Very few young families can afford a three bedroom condo - and even if they could, where would they play? The balcony?

 

[taal]

Very few young families can afford a three bedroom condo - and even if they could, where would they play? The balcony?

public parks ..

There are many more families that live in apartments then you think .. the St. Lawrence Market area (particularly the further east you go, is a prime example.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Very few young families can afford a three bedroom condo - and even if they could, where would they play? The balcony?

it costs that much as 3 bedrooms require large amounts of space, and in the downtown space is of the premium. You can't really expect costs to drop, short of a market crash. The point I was making is that the reason 3 bedroom condos aren't selling isn't because people can't afford them, but that there are better options for the same price. In the current market you can get a 1000 square foot condo for roughly $650,000, which results in a carrying cost of roughly $35,000 a year with current mortgage rates and an assumed maintenance fee of $0.49 per square foot. In order for this to be affordable for this hypothetical family, the family would be required to earn roughly a combined $110,000, or each parent working at $55,000 a year. This represents a slightly above middle class income, with the typical 2 parent family income sitting around $90,000 in todays market. now of course the "affordability" factor changes if the family is willing to spend more than 30% of their income on housing (which may be realistic given that the carrying cost of a car presumably no longer needs to be accounted for), if they get a lower mortgage rate, if they find a condo for less, etc.

Compare to the average townhome price in the 416, which is $689,000. A townhome is generally considered a better place to raise kids, so it is understandable that most parents tend to opt for a townhome over a 3 bedroom condo. However, condo prices are currently rising roughly equal to inflation, but townhome prices are already up 12% this year. Those 3 bedroom condos are going to start sounding a whole lot more appealing in the coming years if prices keep climbing like they are.

 

[Roundabout]

November 11th update:

 

[DtTO]

^ Thanks for the update, Roundabout. Really looking forward to see this one rise. I hope the cladding doesn't disappoint.

 

[Miscreant]

In the least it'll be a solid densifier.

 

[Edward Skira]

Second crane being added today.

 

[Ryan_T]

Ooo. Does this mean they're going to be quick?

 

[Miscreant]

I'm hoping so.

 

[ssiguy2]

At the rate this building is moving I think I'm going to be 88 by the time 88 Scott gets built.

 

[Ramako]

At the rate this building is moving I think I'm going to be 88 by the time 88 Scott gets built.

It's moving at a pretty typical pace.