syn
Senior Member
I agree with Enviro. Not holding the Expo then going after the Pan-Am games doesn't make any sense.
I don't think the last Pan-Am games was even televised.
I don't think the last Pan-Am games was even televised.
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Toronto 2015 Pan American Games
- Thread starter FutureMayor
- Start date
Kiwi
Active Member
Mayor off to Spain to check out World's Fair
Politicians consider expo's benefits; spend $8,000 on junket
By Kevin Werner
Hamilton politicians are looking to get two global events for the price of one.
Soon after they agreed to pursue a bid to land the 2015 Pan American Games, councillors approved spending $8,000 to send Mayor Fred Eisenberger, and David Adames, executive director of Tourism Hamilton to Zaragoza, Spain to check out how the country is hosting its World's Fair event this year.
"We should seize the moment," said Dundas councillor Russ Powers.
Mr. Adames had suggested councillors defer a decision to bid on the 2017 International Expo until 2009 after Hamilton has completed its bid process for the Pan American games. But most councillors said why not initiate both bids at the same time. Hamilton Mountain councillor Tom Jackson introduced the motion to send the mayor to Spain this summer.
Jasper Kujavsky, who tried to lure the Canadian Music Hall of Fame to Hamilton is partnering with Hamilton native Barry Lord, president of Lord Cultural Resources, to encourage the city to bid to host a World's Fair event.
Mr. Kujavsky even suggested Hamilton's World's Fair bid could piggyback onto a possible city-backed bid to host the Pan Am Games in 2015.
One of the draws for Hamilton to host the event is that by 2017, it will help Canada celebrate its 150th birthday.
The last World's Fair in Canada was held in Vancouver, B.C. in 1986. Proponents of the event said the event transformed the city's crumbling waterfront into an iconic tourist destination.
A Hamilton World's Fair would be categorized as a secondary event, and therefore affordable for the city. Vancouver's fair was classified as an 'A' event.
A prime location for the event would be on Hamilton's waterfront, on the Canadian National Railways land.
Politicians consider expo's benefits; spend $8,000 on junket
By Kevin Werner
Hamilton politicians are looking to get two global events for the price of one.
Soon after they agreed to pursue a bid to land the 2015 Pan American Games, councillors approved spending $8,000 to send Mayor Fred Eisenberger, and David Adames, executive director of Tourism Hamilton to Zaragoza, Spain to check out how the country is hosting its World's Fair event this year.
"We should seize the moment," said Dundas councillor Russ Powers.
Mr. Adames had suggested councillors defer a decision to bid on the 2017 International Expo until 2009 after Hamilton has completed its bid process for the Pan American games. But most councillors said why not initiate both bids at the same time. Hamilton Mountain councillor Tom Jackson introduced the motion to send the mayor to Spain this summer.
Jasper Kujavsky, who tried to lure the Canadian Music Hall of Fame to Hamilton is partnering with Hamilton native Barry Lord, president of Lord Cultural Resources, to encourage the city to bid to host a World's Fair event.
Mr. Kujavsky even suggested Hamilton's World's Fair bid could piggyback onto a possible city-backed bid to host the Pan Am Games in 2015.
One of the draws for Hamilton to host the event is that by 2017, it will help Canada celebrate its 150th birthday.
The last World's Fair in Canada was held in Vancouver, B.C. in 1986. Proponents of the event said the event transformed the city's crumbling waterfront into an iconic tourist destination.
A Hamilton World's Fair would be categorized as a secondary event, and therefore affordable for the city. Vancouver's fair was classified as an 'A' event.
A prime location for the event would be on Hamilton's waterfront, on the Canadian National Railways land.
Kitsune
Senior Member
You can build a convertible stadium, where the seats slide over the track whenever Football is being played, much like the way the ACC is converted from hockey to basketball. I believe Wembley Stadium in London uses this approach as well.
indense
Active Member
Really? I thought that the reason they were building a new Olympic stadium in London was because Wembley was unusable without a track.
Hockey to basketball means removing the rink boards and putting some plywood over the ice and adding some temporary seating - "Floor Seats".
EnviroTO
Senior Member
It is nice to see that Hamilton city councillors are so optimistic. Sounds like they are aiming for Hamilton to be the host of both (i.e. they want the title and the opening and closing ceremonies). Personally I would want Hamilton 2015 Pan-Am games and Toronto Expo 2017. It sounds like a group in Montreal is also trying to bring the Expo back for Canada's 150th. There is rumours Toronto is bidding for Commonwealth 2018.
toforumer
Active Member
So the whole Pan Am Games plan hinges on a guy croaking in time?
So 8 games of NFL can make a 80,000 seat stadium profitable but the multitude of Blue Jays games, Argos games, concerts, and other events didn't make a 50,000 seat stadium profitable?
I'm sure they thought Olympic Stadium and maybe even Commonwealth Stadium was world class stadiums when they built them. It would be nice for Toronto to have a stadium capable of handling the IAAF World Championships, Pan Am Games, NFL, etc though.
They are going to have to tell the public at some point. Somebody is going to notice a stadium being built
#1: No, they aren't depending on this guy to croak to get the Pan Ams...lol....I'm just saying Toronto would eventually need a stadium suitable for NFL football and why not get it built by 2015 so it can host events and the ceremonies for a Pan Am bid, and then be used for the NFL team? Wouldn't it help out Toronto secure the NFL's Buffalo Bills relocating here if we have a stadium plan in place and under construction? I would assume so.
#2: I'm pretty sure that 80,000 seat stadium would be profitable considering the prices that would be charged for tickets, especially for those luxury boxes. I'm pretty sure there's some strict rules and requirements by the NFL that their stadiums have a certain amount of luxury boxes, hence why they have pushed for a new stadium in Indianapolis as the latest example. There is a high demand for NFL Football. It's the most success franchised sports league in North America. I would never compare the MLB and CFL to the NFL, that's completely ridiculous. The NFL is on a whole different level.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Yet cities in the US are replacing stadiums every 25-30 years on average blaming stadiums on attendance or low ticket prices. In New York they needed to put both teams in the same stadium in Jersey because they couldn't get good enough deals on a stadium. Many cities in the US have "stadium tax". Doesn't sound like a whole different level. If the NFL was a cash cow they would never need cities to provide stadiums for them.
Kitsune
Senior Member
80000 seat stadium, charge an average price of 10K per seat for seat licenses, and viola, you have 800,000,000 for a new stadium, and the demand would likely be there...
EnviroTO
Senior Member
How are you going to get $10,000 for a seat to go 100% to infrastructure? Lets say the stadium is to be paid off in 25 years. 10000/25/8 = $50 per game. That is $50 per game and no money has been levied yet to pay for interest on the $800M, stadium staff, stadium maintenance, the players, the coaching staff, taxes, etc.
indense
Active Member
A seat licence is not the same thing as a ticket. A seat licence is upfront money for the priveledge of buying tickets. It would be a huge lump sum payment. So rather than accumulating interest on an $800M loan, the owners would be accumulating interest on an $800M deposit as the stadium was being built.
This is what they were doing for the potential Hamilton hockey team. The money you put down didn't cover any tickets. The tickets would be extra.
If you are worried about the team being profitable on top of that because of the expenses that you list, there are a lot of revenue streams that you also left out. Each team in the NFL gets a share of the network TV money. That is over $85 million dollars per team per year. There are, of course, tickets to the games. There is all the concession money from the $10 beer. There is merchandise money, stadium naming rights, corporate sponsorship, etc.
One thing that I'm hoping they don't make any money on would be parking. That depends on where the stadium goes of course.
As far as operating costs go, the league has a salary cap so the only unforseen costs would probably come from a drastic drop in the dollar.
indense
Active Member
The stadiums being replaced right now were built before the owners had heard of "corporate boxes" or realized that that was where the real money was. I believe that the price of real estate in New York has a lot to do with stadiums being in New Jersey. The owners get the cities to cough up money for the stadiums: 1) because it is hard(er) to charge your existing ticket-holders an insane license fee (unlike a relocated or expansion team) and 2) because these are extremely rich people and extremely rich people don't get extremely rich by spending their own money when they could spend someone else's. Did MLSE need the government to help fund a stadium for TFC? Of course not but they got them to do it anyway.
Kitsune
Senior Member
http://www.gamesbids.com/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?category=1&id=1208619428
Support is there for a bid..
Support is there for a bid..
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
Not to mention the rumours of CANOC wanting to forward a Toronto bid for the 2020 or 2024 Olympics -- should Chicago not win in 2016.
Thanks for the scoop.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
The more I think about it the more events like the Pan Am games make sense, as do hosting more world championship or high level competitions in individual sports. Any event should be held to the test of having sport be its primary focus. If the objective is city building outside the sporting realm or political I thing the entire venture should be put into question. Beijing may be an extreme example but I bet more money is being spent on national security and such things as surface to air missiles for a 2 week event than is spent in an entire year supporting most if not all of the amateur sports being played across the globe.