1233 Queen East | ?m | 8s

[TheTigerMaster]

With only one station, there will be a lot of trains stuck in the tunnel when they need to hold service. Evacuation is going to be annoying too if someone jumps at Kennedy.

Trains would probably head back south to Kennedy in this situation. I'm certain that they'll be a crossover between Scarb Centre and Kennedy Stations to facilitate crossovers in the case of trouble at Scarb Centre.

Another problem with this extension is the conversion of Line 2 to ATO. It only makes sense to go with new technology meaning TRs will have to move to Line 2 with the opening. If no funding is available to replace the T1's by 2023, this would be a good excuse to delay the extension or install the current block system and ripe it out in a few years. If they do replace the T1's, then they'll replace them at a premature age with another 5-10 years of life. It's going to be gravy either way.

With the Relief Line there's no reason for 2 BD to have ATO, other than perhaps cheaper operations cost (depending on if the TTC union would allow it). Does anyone know how much money ATO will save the TTC per year on Line 1?

 

[nfitz]

Does anyone know how much money ATO will save the TTC per year on Line 1?

Not sure how it would save any money. It's not necessary for one-person operation.

 

[salsa]

They need ATC equipped trains to travel down Yonge Line to Davisville yard by 2020. The T1's don't support ATC so they made a last minute decision to ditch T1's on Sheppard.

Was this really the best thing to do rather than retrofit the T1s with ATC? I ask this because the current trains on Line 4 are not that old and seem to have plenty of life left in them.

 

[rbt]

As a benefit, it frees up 4 more T1 trainsets if they really want to extend the Danforth Line to Scarborough Centre by 2023 - though ironically now they are talking about only 1 new station, perhaps less of an issue.

Does this have much value either way? Within 3 years of that date the earliest T1's will be due for replacement (30 years of service).

 

[nfitz]

Was this really the best thing to do rather than retrofit the T1s with ATC? I ask this because the current trains on Line 4 are not that old and seem to have plenty of life left in them.

Hard to say. They seem reluctant to retrofit the T1s. This was the easy solution. And the trains will be returned to Greenwood and be used on Line 2 in the meantime; which will presumably require more maintenance spares as the equipment ages.

Does this have much value either way? Within 3 years of that date the earliest T1's will be due for replacement (30 years of service).

Replacement or a mid-life rebuild. There's no reason (other than money) they can't be extended to last 40 or even 50 years (the age of the oldest cars currently running in Montreal).

They do seem to think it's cheaper to replace them at 30 years, than do the ATO conversion.

If nothing else it provides an aging fleet with some spares, and a bit of extra capacity if they do actually open the Danforth extension on-time in 2023 (which becomes more possible as it gets shorter and simpler).

 

[W. K. Lis]

Not sure how it would save any money. It's not necessary for one-person operation.

ATO (Automatic Train Operation) controls the starting and stopping of trains, opening and closing of doors, and driving the train. A human would still be onboard as a guard, emergencies, fare inspection, crowd control, and/or company for the lonesome.

 

[nfitz]

ATO (Automatic Train Operation) controls the starting and stopping of trains, opening and closing of doors, and driving the train. A human would still be onboard as a guard, emergencies, fare inspection, crowd control, and/or company for the lonesome.

So how do they save money then? And where has there been any indication the operator would be leaving the cabin ... fare inspection? They'll still have to be closing the doors at every station - there's no automation for that.

 

[W. K. Lis]

So how do they save money then? And where has there been any indication the operator would be leaving the cabin ... fare inspection? They'll still have to be closing the doors at every station - there's no automation for that.

Oh? How do automatic doors on elevators then work?

Once the entire TTC subway is automated, we should see the return of the railfan window with the next generation of subway trains.

 

[kotsy]

I think TTC is only moving towards having 1 operator on board so I think there will still be a cab a the front and rear.

 

[dowlingm]

maybe the next gen Yonge trains might have a Skytrain like control at the front window but they are hardly going to rip out the cabs on the TR sets surely.

 

[W. K. Lis]

For a true fully automated subway system, we'll need platform doors, which was opposed by the bean-counters on council.

 

[Duck]

You don't need platform screen doors for full automation. Many systems around the world run fully automatic without drivers or attendants without them. Off the top of my head, Vancouver and Lyon come to mind.

 

[nfitz]

Oh? How do automatic doors on elevators then work?

Those aren't the types of doors on the trains. The trains aren't designed to operate without an operator in the train.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Those aren't the types of doors on the trains. The trains aren't designed to operate without an operator in the train.

Supply the link please.

ATO (Automatic Train Control) means that the train can operate without an operator on board. However, there will be an employee on board, just as on the SRT. This is also why there are so many closures on the subway during weekends, to install the needed upgrades and controls to use ATO.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If the Sheppard trains travel to the yard when the subway is closed then why would it even need ATC.