Richard White
Senior Member
Nobody would be on the streets due to the blinding lights.
|
|
|
St Lawrence Market
- Thread starter dt_toronto_geek
- Start date
Nobody would be on the streets due to the blinding lights.
So where would they be? It solves nothing but just pushes people somewhere else.
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 19,813
- Reaction score
- 28,711
- Location
- St Lawrence Market Area
You want 'full stadium lights" outside your bedroom window? Streets and sidewalks can be lit to deal with safety AND aesthetics (and liveability). It just takes some effort!
Richard White
Senior Member
Andy_in_Toronto
Active Member
Someone wrote an excellent tweet that caused a lot of attention. Toronto Hydro just responded:
“Hi all. We’re committed to supporting the City’s Wellington Street Realm Improvement initiative. We’ve provided the City with the information they need to help them complete this complex project according to their timeline”
What does this mean? Hopefully positive!
“Hi all. We’re committed to supporting the City’s Wellington Street Realm Improvement initiative. We’ve provided the City with the information they need to help them complete this complex project according to their timeline”
What does this mean? Hopefully positive!
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
According to their timeline. Ha. ha. ha. The timeline from which year would they be referring to, I wonder.
AoD
AoD
Andy_in_Toronto
Active Member
Lets try to make this public as much as possible. Twitter might make an impact if everyone adds!
ShonTron
Moderator
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 12,540
- Reaction score
- 9,538
- Location
- Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
My spouse and I visited the C'est What beer garden in the parking lot around the corner from their main entrance Friday afternoon. It's FCFS, no reservations. I like the atmosphere of it - the surrounding buildings provide lots of shade, yet aren't overwhelming in height. Service was great. But since the parking lot they're on doesn't have power or running water, there's some compromises. Food - most of the pub's staples are on the limited menu - comes from their kitchen, but in takeout containers. All beer is canned, including Al's Cask, which was canned at the bar, and shaken before serving. Needless to say, it's a very limited beer menu compared to what regulars are used to.
The Wellington/Front road and utility work forced them to have the beer garden without a conventional CafeTO patio, which would have allowed for a fuller beer menu - and draft beer - at the very least.
At least the Berzcy Park fountain is fully functional again for the first time since Fall 2019.
The Wellington/Front road and utility work forced them to have the beer garden without a conventional CafeTO patio, which would have allowed for a fuller beer menu - and draft beer - at the very least.
At least the Berzcy Park fountain is fully functional again for the first time since Fall 2019.
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 19,813
- Reaction score
- 28,711
- Location
- St Lawrence Market Area
I just wrote to a contact there to ask! The alternative narrative of all this is that the Mayor was getting heat because the restaurants and bars on Wellington could not have patios while the streetscape project was going on so HE jumped on this Toronto Hydro stuff as a great excuse and decided to postpone everything until 2022. I have heard estimates of the cost of this pause in the contract and the cost of making the street safe until spring 2022 is "well over $1 million" but ... It's getting murky!
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 19,813
- Reaction score
- 28,711
- Location
- St Lawrence Market Area
C'Est What applied for the beer garden patio on The Esplanade in 2020 so it is not really a result of the Wellington & Front fiasco. (Though it's a good idea!)
It is great the Dog Fountain in Berczy is on but I suspect it may have been turned on because they are filming around it today! Probably too nice for only us regular citizens!
Last edited:
mburrrrr
Senior Member
Do the bar/patio owners really want this pushed out yet another year when they are at minimum capacity and then go through this disruption again next July or August when they could be at 100% capacity if the street work was completed? I can’t imagine they will get next years’ work done any earlier based on the track record of this project. Give the million dollars to small businesses instead and let’s get going.
evandyk
Senior Member
I think the more likely explanation is that Toronto Hydro just doesn't care.
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 19,813
- Reaction score
- 28,711
- Location
- St Lawrence Market Area
Or woke up to the fact that this latest nonsense may be a 'step too far". That said, the contractors were on the street this morning filling in a few holes.....
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 19,813
- Reaction score
- 28,711
- Location
- St Lawrence Market Area
I agree that if they want this they are crazy but i have heard from many that they DO REALLY want (need?) 2021 patios. I think if I owned a restaurant there I would see if work could go on longer each day and include weekends so that it could be done sooner. Shutting down means a short patio season in 2021 on a street that will be a mess followed by another short patio season in 2022 on a street with ongoing construction. Get the damned thing over with soon would be MY take but ....
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 19,813
- Reaction score
- 28,711
- Location
- St Lawrence Market Area
This statement below was just issued by Wong-Tam's office. It raises yet more questions. Now the problem is not only Hydro! There is a VERY strong smell around this whole thing!
The Wellington Street Streetscape project has been planned since at least 2010 (yes 2010) and the City and the utilities (water, sewer, hydro, gas and telecoms) have all been there upgrading their underground equipment and pipes & conduits. I am not sure what 'unexpected" things they have now found!
"June 15, 2021
My Statement About the Wellington Street East Construction
Last week my office was informed that Transportation Services and Engineering and
Construction Services jointly decided to halt ongoing streetscape construction on
Wellington Street East between Yonge Street and Church Street until the Spring of
2022. In the interim, I have asked City staff to work with the St. Lawrence Market
Neighbourhood Business Improvement Area (BIA) to make this summer’s streetscape
condition as welcoming as possible and to permit CafeTO patios for those restaurants that
can now also take advantage of the construction delays.
While Wellington construction was originally scheduled to be completed this
September, I'm advised that unanticipated and ongoing challenges have resulted in
City staff’s decision to delay construction one more year. Sidewalks and roadways in
Toronto have significant underground infrastructure buried from a long time ago, especially
prevalent in some of the oldest segments of the city. Unexpected underground infrastructure
has forced the City to take pause and find a resolution. Left unresolved and without a clear
timeline for resolution, the contractor on-site essentially ran out of work they could
complete. In addition, City staff heard a number of concerns from businesses along
Wellington Street East and Front Street East that were unhappy about the ongoing
construction on Wellington this summer. Operating a successful patio this season is critical
and it could mean the difference between staying in business or shuttering their doors
forever. City staff will use this delay to resolve the infrastructure challenge while permitting
eligible local businesses to proceed with CafeTO installations this year.
The contractor for the Wellington Street East work will be demobilizing, removing
on-site equipment and construction materials by June 19, 2021. The plan is for the
contractor to return in April 2022, and spend approximately three months to finish this work
by July and well before the end of next summer. City staff will be working to see if
construction can resume earlier than April, weather permitting, to avoid heavy construction
work next summer.
If there is a sliver of positive outcome to the regrettable delays on Wellington, it is to
the restaurant owners who reached out to my office and City staff concerned that
ongoing construction would delay any implementation of CafeTO and cause
disruptions for patio patrons. City staff will use this deferred construction to implement
CafeTO patios immediately where requested, and will work with restaurants who were not
anticipating the ability to operate a patio to see if one can be accommodated. City staff are
now hopeful these CafeTO patios can be in place on or shortly after June 20, 2021 once the
streetscaping contractor has vacated the area.
Staff have also indicated that deferring construction until 2022 is the least intrusive
and most cost-effective measure to complete this streetscaping project. Pausing work
indefinitely to keep the contractor on-site would incur significant additional costs, and would
ensure Wellington Street East would remain a construction zone for the duration of the
summer with no guarantee the work could be completed this year.
While construction is delayed, I have asked staff to work closely with the St.
Lawrence Market Neighbourhood BIA to assist businesses through this interim
period. I have spoken to many of you and share your frustrations. My office will continue to
advocate with City staff for as much business assistance as reasonable through this period.
Shortly after I took office in the new Ward 13 at the end of 2018, the St. Lawrence
Market Neighbourhood BIA reached out about the pre-existing challenges on
Wellington Street East, which at the time was subject to utility work in advance of
approved streetscape work. Through my Motion to City Council, I directed the creation of a
working group with the expressed purpose of coordinating technical infrastructure work in a
timely fashion. My motion was both a recognition of the complexity of coordinating multiple
utilities, telecommunications, TTC infrastructure, and subsequent upgraded streetscape
work while acknowledging this work had not proceeded in a timely manner.
Construction on Wellington Street East, as originally envisioned, was to be a model
of proper coordination of utilities and streetscape work that could save both time and
money while leaving an attractive, safer streetscape for everyone. Instead, the work
has dragged on for approximately seven years and forced residents and businesses to deal
with many years of construction impacts. There is no shortage of streets that could be
transformed like Wellington Street East, but if this is the construction coordination model,
such streetscape improvements will be much harder to promote to residents and
businesses alike. I will be asking City staff to perform a post mortem of this project to
understand everything that went wrong, and to try ensure the painful experience of
Wellington is not repeated."
The Wellington Street Streetscape project has been planned since at least 2010 (yes 2010) and the City and the utilities (water, sewer, hydro, gas and telecoms) have all been there upgrading their underground equipment and pipes & conduits. I am not sure what 'unexpected" things they have now found!
"June 15, 2021
My Statement About the Wellington Street East Construction
Last week my office was informed that Transportation Services and Engineering and
Construction Services jointly decided to halt ongoing streetscape construction on
Wellington Street East between Yonge Street and Church Street until the Spring of
2022. In the interim, I have asked City staff to work with the St. Lawrence Market
Neighbourhood Business Improvement Area (BIA) to make this summer’s streetscape
condition as welcoming as possible and to permit CafeTO patios for those restaurants that
can now also take advantage of the construction delays.
While Wellington construction was originally scheduled to be completed this
September, I'm advised that unanticipated and ongoing challenges have resulted in
City staff’s decision to delay construction one more year. Sidewalks and roadways in
Toronto have significant underground infrastructure buried from a long time ago, especially
prevalent in some of the oldest segments of the city. Unexpected underground infrastructure
has forced the City to take pause and find a resolution. Left unresolved and without a clear
timeline for resolution, the contractor on-site essentially ran out of work they could
complete. In addition, City staff heard a number of concerns from businesses along
Wellington Street East and Front Street East that were unhappy about the ongoing
construction on Wellington this summer. Operating a successful patio this season is critical
and it could mean the difference between staying in business or shuttering their doors
forever. City staff will use this delay to resolve the infrastructure challenge while permitting
eligible local businesses to proceed with CafeTO installations this year.
The contractor for the Wellington Street East work will be demobilizing, removing
on-site equipment and construction materials by June 19, 2021. The plan is for the
contractor to return in April 2022, and spend approximately three months to finish this work
by July and well before the end of next summer. City staff will be working to see if
construction can resume earlier than April, weather permitting, to avoid heavy construction
work next summer.
If there is a sliver of positive outcome to the regrettable delays on Wellington, it is to
the restaurant owners who reached out to my office and City staff concerned that
ongoing construction would delay any implementation of CafeTO and cause
disruptions for patio patrons. City staff will use this deferred construction to implement
CafeTO patios immediately where requested, and will work with restaurants who were not
anticipating the ability to operate a patio to see if one can be accommodated. City staff are
now hopeful these CafeTO patios can be in place on or shortly after June 20, 2021 once the
streetscaping contractor has vacated the area.
Staff have also indicated that deferring construction until 2022 is the least intrusive
and most cost-effective measure to complete this streetscaping project. Pausing work
indefinitely to keep the contractor on-site would incur significant additional costs, and would
ensure Wellington Street East would remain a construction zone for the duration of the
summer with no guarantee the work could be completed this year.
While construction is delayed, I have asked staff to work closely with the St.
Lawrence Market Neighbourhood BIA to assist businesses through this interim
period. I have spoken to many of you and share your frustrations. My office will continue to
advocate with City staff for as much business assistance as reasonable through this period.
Shortly after I took office in the new Ward 13 at the end of 2018, the St. Lawrence
Market Neighbourhood BIA reached out about the pre-existing challenges on
Wellington Street East, which at the time was subject to utility work in advance of
approved streetscape work. Through my Motion to City Council, I directed the creation of a
working group with the expressed purpose of coordinating technical infrastructure work in a
timely fashion. My motion was both a recognition of the complexity of coordinating multiple
utilities, telecommunications, TTC infrastructure, and subsequent upgraded streetscape
work while acknowledging this work had not proceeded in a timely manner.
Construction on Wellington Street East, as originally envisioned, was to be a model
of proper coordination of utilities and streetscape work that could save both time and
money while leaving an attractive, safer streetscape for everyone. Instead, the work
has dragged on for approximately seven years and forced residents and businesses to deal
with many years of construction impacts. There is no shortage of streets that could be
transformed like Wellington Street East, but if this is the construction coordination model,
such streetscape improvements will be much harder to promote to residents and
businesses alike. I will be asking City staff to perform a post mortem of this project to
understand everything that went wrong, and to try ensure the painful experience of
Wellington is not repeated."