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SmartTrack (Proposed)

Good. The first thing these experts should do is recommend the cancelation of the Line 2 extension. Building two subway lines in Scarborough two kilometres from each other has to be the dumbest idea I've heard in a long time.

It's hard to pick a winner for "dumbest idea" when the subway is tied with a bunch of his other dumb ideas, from the TIF scheme to the tunnelling on Eglinton. Hopefully the experts will have a thing or two to say about that as well, although I doubt councillors care about facts in the first place, especially with the subway.
 
What I find bizarre is that Tory presented ST as it if it were the most brilliant plan ever conceived, however did not mention (as far as I know) that most of the western portion is the UPx which will be completed in a matter of months!

In fact, I really don't recall any discussion at all during the mayoral campaign about UPx. People talk so much about a DRL, well there is one which is about to be built and operating. I really think that the gov't needs to be more transparent around the UPx and what its longer term plans are with the line.

The western portion of ST isn't UPX, nor does UPX run on Eglinton. As for nobody talking about UPX, why would they? For one, it's not part of the transit system. And two, I don't think most Toronto politicians are even aware of what it is. IIRC there was a motion not too long ago to have UPX become rapid transit with subway-like fares (bit late for that).
 
How would SmartTrack access the Dundas West Station? Which connection (if any) has Metrolinx selected for UPX/GO and the Dundas West Station?

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The last I checked they were only options to be selected.
 

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Thanks for the reply. There is a lot of (well-deserved IMO) criticism of the UPx that it is not "public transit" but rather simply a connection between Pearson and Bay Street. Do you think Metrolinx intends to continue running the UPx in this form, and will have an additional line on the same corridor to provide local service to the airport (I understand that SmartTrack in its proposed form terminated the aiport corporate centre, but it can just be extended to the aiport).

On a side note, having these very wide GO corridors seems to provide a lot of potential flexibility in terms of running express trains, dual lines etc

how would you go about extending from te airport corporate centre to the airport?

saying "it can just be extended" suggests it is a lot simpler than i believe it would be....it is a fair distance....with, what, 12? lanes of highway and how many runways between it and the terminal buildings?
 
They really should implement the Dundas West transfer tunnel so that people can transfer between the Bloor subway and SmartTrack/UPX/GO easily as part of the SmartTrack project.

On the other side, Kennedy seems alright as a transfer point.
 
We certainly would benefit from much tighter integration between GO/Metrolinx services and TTC -- especially with the arrival of TTC-wide Presto and SmartTrack. It's really key to making GOTrain routes truly feel like bona-fide surface subways. Frequent service, easy transfers, fare integration...
 
Barrie Line is already slated to get a St.Clair station. But on the regular GO network.

It would be nice to use the money slated for the pointless "Eglinton spur" and instead add stations for Smarttrack on the Barrie, Milton and Kitchener lines within the downtown area.

Something like in this map

View attachment 38478

Funny you say downtown but your entire map shows no downtown whatsoever. What us "downtown " to you?
 
Funny you say downtown but your entire map shows no downtown whatsoever. What us "downtown " to you?

Wouldn't anyplace outside of the boundaries of the City of Toronto in 1834 be "suburbs"? Wouldn't inside those boundaries be "downtown"?

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It's hard to pick a winner for "dumbest idea" when the subway is tied with a bunch of his other dumb ideas, from the TIF scheme to the tunnelling on Eglinton. Hopefully the experts will have a thing or two to say about that as well, although I doubt councillors care about facts in the first place, especially with the subway.
To be fair, I don't think anyone with a head on their shoulders believes that John Tory is stupid enough to believe in his TIF funding scheme. It was designed to sound nice to voters, because who doesn't love free subways?
 
I was planning on going to the meeting this morning, but the weather didn't work in my favour. Thanks for posting the presentation!

It will be interesting now to watch for 2 things:

1) How SmartTrack gets modified in order to fit even better with GO RER. I'm thinking specifically the Eglinton West segment. I think it will either be dropped in favour of the Eglinton LRT, or that branch will be extended further west in order to better serve Mississauga.

2) How the Metrolinx Relief Line study will fit into this. Like SmartTrack, I hope that we will eventually see the Relief Line proposal simply rolled into GO RER, and potentially combined with SmartTrack.

Got a few answers from this proposal, but I was hoping they would have had more detail on service configurations and phasing. All the presentation really says about those is "they'll come later".
 
1) How SmartTrack gets modified in order to fit even better with GO RER. I'm thinking specifically the Eglinton West segment. I think it will either be dropped in favour of the Eglinton LRT, or that branch will be extended further west in order to better serve Mississauga.

2) How the Metrolinx Relief Line study will fit into this. Like SmartTrack, I hope that we will eventually see the Relief Line proposal simply rolled into GO RER, and potentially combined with SmartTrack.

Got a few answers from this proposal, but I was hoping they would have had more detail on service configurations and phasing. All the presentation really says about those is "they'll come later".

I am not sure how 1) can be addressed avoiding duplication with ECLRT while serving ACC and ultimately Meadowvale as proposed in the SSRA report. And 2) is given an out by the said SSRA report - their Wellington Scheme is pretty much a DRL (though it needs improvement in the core section). That aspect of the project should be started concurrently - use Union Station as a stop gap before shifting north to an underground alignment - or maybe even both.
 
I'm guessing the Relief Study will say something like "SmartTrack/GO RER will provide some relief, but DRL still needed in 15-20 years"
 
I am not sure how 1) can be addressed avoiding duplication with ECLRT while serving ACC and ultimately Meadowvale as proposed in the SSRA report. And 2) is given an out by the said SSRA report - their Wellington Scheme is pretty much a DRL (though it needs improvement in the core section). That aspect of the project should be started concurrently - use Union Station as a stop gap before shifting north to an underground alignment - or maybe even both.

Well presumably the ECLRT would be permanently truncated at Weston, and a GO RER branch would serve points west of there. I doubt there would be any kind of concurrency, given the relatively low ridership on that corridor. They may add a couple more local stops though, potentially mirroring the subway stop spacing on Bloor for that stretch.

And yes that's my point with the SSRA report's Wellington scheme. If you ditch the assumption that the DRL needs to be a TTC subway, then you open up a whole new realm of possibilities for integration with the RER network. It extends further into the suburbs than a TTC subway ever could (unless there's a blank cheque), it solves the capacity crunch at Union, and it provides the connectivity to the shoulder areas of downtown.

Your concurrency point I absolutely agree with as well. Route all GO RER services into Union as an interim measure until the tunnel is built, and then shift the Toronto-centric services (SmartTrack or whatever equivalent) into the tunnel. This would then allow for a boost to 905-centric services, which by then should have the local transit infrastructure in place to support a higher level of service.

Right now the biggest obstacle to increased service in the 905 is the lack of local transit infrastructure and services to bring people to the stations. GO usage is pretty much limited to parking availability, so bumping service up too much too soon without the local infrastructure to support it would be an operations black hole. But by the time the Central Tunnel (or whatever you want to call it) is ready, those local services in the 905 will have had time to mature, so replacing those slots at Union that were previously Toronto-centric trains with a service boost for 905-centric trains may actually work from an operations perspective.

I'm guessing the Relief Study will say something like "SmartTrack/GO RER will provide some relief, but DRL still needed in 15-20 years"

The TTC study may say that, but listening to what's coming out of the various Metrolinx reports, they're looking at the DRL as more of a component in a regional network than as an expansion to the TTC subway network. They seem to be looking at it as the solution to the capacity crunch at Union, with the side benefit of being the solution to the capacity crunch at Bloor-Yonge. The TTC by and large is just looking at Bloor-Yonge.
 

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