Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Leo_Chan]

Imagine the Relief Line in place before we retire...

"We" is a relative word to use. People on these forums range from teens to the old retired, so retirement is different for all.

 

[Hopkins123]

Don't forget that when it was built, NIMBYism didn't exist and suburbs were smaller but denser.

Everything was better before everyone had an opinion, lol. I couldn't even imagine the Gardiner or Hwy 401 built at all per today's sensibilities. And the subway system probably would only have like half of the current stops, assuming subway technology would even be considered in this seemingly hostile-to-grade separation climate.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Imagine the Relief Line in place before we retire...

"We" is a relative word to use. People on these forums range from teens to the old retired, so retirement is different for all.

I'm in my twenties, and even I have my doubts. So if you're in your 40s or later... good luck to you

 

[W. K. Lis]

From this news with Urban Toronto, at this link:

In addition to all of these projects by 2041, Metrolinx and its local partner, the TTC intend to extend the Sheppard subway—not eastward, as many may have thought, but westward, to connect the Yonge and University branches of the TTC, Line 1 subway. They're also planning to extend the Finch West LRT southward to Pearson Airport and eastward to Yonge Street, the Eglinton East LRT north and westward through the Malvern neighbourhood and the Sheppard East LRT eastward to Meadowvale Road.

On page 145 of the Final Draft 2041 Transportation Plan, at this PDF link, accessed from this website link.

Subway Project #74—Sheppard Subway West Extension (Sheppard Station – Sheppard West Station)

 

[dowlingm]

So the Pasternak line gets built but we still tear up Don Mills station to retrofit rather than subway under 404 and a purpose designed interchange at either Vic Park or Agincourt GO. And that before we know for sure how Downsview Airport's future is going to look. Ooookay.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Downsview Park would be better to connect with GO.

 

[11th]

Downsview Park would be better to connect with GO.

Agree, but Downsview Park GO and Agincourt GO are far apart, and the Barrie and Stouffville lines serve different area. Ideally line 4 should be the connector in between those two lines (plus Relief Line and both ends of line 1) - not sure about the Downsview Park situation as it will be stupid to have the line ends one station away at Sheppard West.

 

[W. K. Lis]

So the Pasternak line gets built but we still tear up Don Mills station to retrofit rather than subway under 404 and a purpose designed interchange at either Vic Park or Agincourt GO. And that before we know for sure how Downsview Airport's future is going to look. Ooookay.

By having the Relief Line extension cross under the 401 and follow the Parkway Forest Drive and/or Parkway Forest Park to reach CF Fairview Mall's parking lots, there should be minimal construction disruption to join up at the existing Don Mills Station on Line 4.

 

[jaybe]

So the Pasternak line gets built but we still tear up Don Mills station to retrofit rather than subway under 404 and a purpose designed interchange at either Vic Park or Agincourt GO. And that before we know for sure how Downsview Airport's future is going to look. Ooookay.

The reason the Sheppard Line stops at Don Mills rather than Vic Park is due to travel patterns of Scarborough residents. A one stop extension of the Sheppard Subway increases the inconvenience to Scarborough transit users (those who would start their trips from east of Vic Park). Most westbound riders on Sheppard are destined for Fairview Mall or points North or South via Don Mills Rd. An extension to the Subway would force a transfer for one stop. Likewise, eastbound passengers are destined for locations past Vic Park and arrive Don Mills Station via bus rather than subway. An extension of the subway by one stop forces a transfer.

To make sense for Scarborough transit users the Sheppard Subway Line would need to be extended further east.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Agree, but Downsview Park GO and Agincourt GO are far apart, and the Barrie and Stouffville lines serve different area. Ideally line 4 should be the connector in between those two lines (plus Relief Line and both ends of line 1) - not sure about the Downsview Park situation as it will be stupid to have the line ends one station away at Sheppard West.

Or the Sheppard West Extension could stop at both Sheppard West and Downsview Park. interlining? No way!

 

[M II A II R II K]

And interline to Finch West to connect to the Finch LRT

 

[Leo_Chan]

And interline to Finch West to connect to the Finch LRT

Wow, 3 stations that allow you to transfer to the same line? That's insane!

Why they're at it, it might make sense to have Line 4 trains go from VMC to STC. If people can get used to interlining for once, it would make the system work much better and reduce the need to transfer at interchange stations. Line 2 trains going down Line 3 at Pape would be even better than just having the interchange station there.

Would trains still stop at the interchange stations if they're interlined? If so, wouldn't thus require station platforms to be in specific angles that allow for tunnels to connect further off? Or if they don't, then just have tunnels that merge together? How exactly does this work at St George, Bay, and Museam?

 

[Northern Light]

The reason the Sheppard Line stops at Don Mills rather than Vic Park is due to travel patterns of Scarborough residents. A one stop extension of the Sheppard Subway increases the inconvenience to Scarborough transit users (those who would start their trips from east of Vic Park). Most westbound riders on Sheppard are destined for Fairview Mall or points North or South via Don Mills Rd. An extension to the Subway would force a transfer for one stop. Likewise, eastbound passengers are destined for locations past Vic Park and arrive Don Mills Station via bus rather than subway. An extension of the subway by one stop forces a transfer.

To make sense for Scarborough transit users the Sheppard Subway Line would need to be extended further east.

While your reasoning is sensible enough; the phase 1 Sheppard Subway was approved as going to Victoria Park Avenue.

The choice to cut back to Don Mills was purely financial.

The reasoning for Victoria Park as a termination point was to serve the large office node in the Consumers Rd. Business/Office Park.

While most of us would agree Sheppard should not have been built at all, at the time, the case for it, if any would be later, notably behind the Relief Line; we would also say, if you were going to bother building it, you had to give it some chance to be useful. Getting it to Vic. Park, and building the infill station at Willowdale were critical to that.

As for the current situation, IF Sheppard gets rapid transit at all, east of Don Mills, it will be tunneled at least to Consumers Rd, whether its LRT or subway.

In that context, there is genuine room for discussing whether it might not make more sense to take the subway to Vic Park.

That said, this remains a project well down the list of those that should be pursued.

It ought not to see the light of day in any form, till the Relief line hits Sheppard, and Dundas West in the west end; and RER is fully delivered and we've somehow resolved the LRT replacement in Scarborough as well.

So let's all make a date to discuss it again in 2028 ( I try to be an optimist, LOL)

 

[Leo_Chan]

While your reasoning is sensible enough; the phase 1 Sheppard Subway was approved as going to Victoria Park Avenue.

The choice to cut back to Don Mills was purely financial.

The reasoning for Victoria Park as a termination point was to serve the large office node in the Consumers Rd. Business/Office Park.

While most of us would agree Sheppard should not have been built at all, at the time, the case for it, if any would be later, notably behind the Relief Line; we would also say, if you were going to bother building it, you had to give it some chance to be useful. Getting it to Vic. Park, and building the infill station at Willowdale were critical to that.

As for the current situation, IF Sheppard gets rapid transit at all, east of Don Mills, it will be tunneled at least to Consumers Rd, whether its LRT or subway.

In that context, there is genuine room for discussing whether it might not make more sense to take the subway to Vic Park.

That said, this remains a project well down the list of those that should be pursued.

It ought not to see the light of day in any form, till the Relief line hits Sheppard, and Dundas West in the west end; and RER is fully delivered and we've somehow resolved the LRT replacement in Scarborough as well.

So let's all make a date to discuss it again in 2028 ( I try to be an optimist, LOL)

Hold on... 2028 for both Relief Line West and North? That's crazy. Even 2028 is very optimistic for Relief Line South. You're delusional.

A triple interchange station is better than 2 interchange stations right next to one another. So if the Relief Line does go to Sheppard/Victoria Park instead of Fairview, then YRT/Viva may have to change their plans for BRT/LRT on Leslie and Don Mills to Woodbine and Victoria Park.

 

[BurlOak]

Wow, 3 stations that allow you to transfer to the same line? That's insane!

Why they're at it, it might make sense to have Line 4 trains go from VMC to STC. If people can get used to interlining for once, it would make the system work much better and reduce the need to transfer at interchange stations.

Interlining can work and does work elsewhere.
To be clear to passengers, the interlined part is viewed as different lines using the same track. Below, I show 6 subway lines:

1. Y-V: (Yellow) Yonge (Finch) to Vaughan.
2. B-D: (Green) Bloor-Danforth
3. S-M: (D. Blue) Scarborough RT to McCowan
4. S-V: (L. Blue) Sheppard (Fairview) to Vaughan
5. Y-S: (Purple) Yonge (Finch) to Sheppard (Fairview).
6. Y-D: (Red) Yonge (Finch) to Downsview - predetermined as a short turn train during rush hour.