Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[W. K. Lis]

If they replace the low-density homes in the neighbours around Willowdale and Senlac with medium to high density developments, they could construct stations there.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If they replace the low-density homes in the neighbours around Willowdale and Senlac with medium to high density developments, they could construct stations there.

Or we could construct stations where the demand already exists, rather than trying to artificially induce demand elsewhere.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The big ticket in subway line construction are the stations themselves,... that's why they're trying to cut cost on Scarborough Subway extension by cutting station to just one! On Spadina Subway extension, the cost for each of those subway stations were in the 100s of millions of dollars! The City isn't going to get the amount of intensification needed around Sheppard & Senlac or Sheppard & Willowdale to justify the cost of subway stations.

The only subway station that was ever built mid-station was North York Centre partly funded via Developer fee/Section37 CommunityBenefit from North York City Centre development in mid 1980's. North York Centre station is busiest TTC subway station without a bus or streetcar line (excluding the mainly empty Yonge 97 bus route); basically all it's passenger volume is local walk-in passengers!
https://transit.toronto.on.ca/subwa...ersity-spadina-subway/north-york-centre.shtml

Tunnels are cheap. Their cost per kilometre is measured in the tens of millions of dollars per kilometre. Emergency exits and stations are what eat through the budget.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Barcelona has come up with a potentially cheap method of building stations.

The only way to get to the track level is by elevator. The engineers claim that the elevators are fast enough to get passengers to track level without delay, but I’m justifiable sceptical. However the line is already under construction, so we won’t have to wait too much longer to see how it performs in the real world. If this works out for Madrid, then I’d have to problem importing in into Toronto.

They also use several other innovate cost saving measures that are outlined in the article, including methods that eliminate the need for costly emergency passageways and exits.

This might be the most exciting development in subway-building technology since the boring machine!

http://www.cat-bus.com/2017/10/barcelonas-line-9-inspiring-montreals-pink-line/

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

That looks like how they should have built Bayview Station - the deepest subway station in TTC system.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

If they replace the low-density homes in the neighbours around Willowdale and Senlac with medium to high density developments, they could construct stations there.

It's been almost 20 years since Sheppard STUBway opened and they still haven't been able to replace the low-density homes north of Bessarion Station with high density developments; south has large former Canadian Tire land and Concorde Adex's ParkPlace - 20+ condo towers development in progress.

The south-east section of Bayview & Sheppard is the only place along the Sheppard STUBway line where we've seen land-lots of low-density homes being assembled into the large lots required for high density developments,... but keep in mind Bayview is major arterial road with highway interchange at 401.

 

[wopchop]

Barcelona has come up with a potentially cheap method of building stations.

View attachment 137184

The only way to get to the track level is by elevator. The engineers claim that the elevators are fast enough to get passengers to track level without delay, but I’m justifiable sceptical. However the line is already under construction, so we won’t have to wait too much longer to see how it performs in the real world. If this works out for Madrid, then I’d have to problem importing in into Toronto.

When I lived in NYC, at my local station (168th st), if you needed to take the (1) train, the only way to get down was via four elevators. Inevitably, many would be out of service. It was terrible.

I would also be skeptical.

 

[BurlOak]

There was community opposition to Willowdale Stn. Though, it wasn't really to the station per se.

There were (and still are) a lot of renters in the houses surrounding Willowdale station. They are often owned by foreigner waiting to be converted to monster homes. The locals realized that with a Willowdale station the renters would be kicked out for re-development.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Barcelona has come up with a potentially cheap method of building stations.

View attachment 137184

The only way to get to the track level is by elevator. The engineers claim that the elevators are fast enough to get passengers to track level without delay, but I’m justifiable sceptical. However the line is already under construction, so we won’t have to wait too much longer to see how it performs in the real world. If this works out for Madrid, then I’d have to problem importing in into Toronto.

They also use several other innovate cost saving measures that are outlined in the article, including methods that eliminate the need for costly emergency passageways and exits.

This might be the most exciting development in subway-building technology since the boring machine!

http://www.cat-bus.com/2017/10/barcelonas-line-9-inspiring-montreals-pink-line/

It already exist - Av. Tibidabo station on L7 in Barcelona - it worked fine enough when I was there, but it is a terminus station on a not particularly heavily used line.

AoD

 

[smallspy]

Barcelona has come up with a potentially cheap method of building stations.

View attachment 137184

The only way to get to the track level is by elevator. The engineers claim that the elevators are fast enough to get passengers to track level without delay, but I’m justifiable sceptical. However the line is already under construction, so we won’t have to wait too much longer to see how it performs in the real world. If this works out for Madrid, then I’d have to problem importing in into Toronto.

They also use several other innovate cost saving measures that are outlined in the article, including methods that eliminate the need for costly emergency passageways and exits.

This might be the most exciting development in subway-building technology since the boring machine!

http://www.cat-bus.com/2017/10/barcelonas-line-9-inspiring-montreals-pink-line/

Cheap for construction - but I wonder what the ongoing costs of a station like that will be. I can't imagine that it would be so much cheaper to construct as to offset the additional electrical and maintenance costs over much of a time period.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Cheap for construction - but I wonder what the ongoing costs of a station like that will be. I can't imagine that it would be so much cheaper to construct as to offset the additional electrical and maintenance costs over much of a time period.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

If it replace multiple escalators, perhaps?

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Cheap for construction - but I wonder what the ongoing costs of a station like that will be. I can't imagine that it would be so much cheaper to construct as to offset the additional electrical and maintenance costs over much of a time period.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

If it replace multiple escalators, perhaps?

AoD

It also eliminates the need for separate elevators for AODA compliance. Everyone, disabled or not, would use the same elevators to reach platform level.

However I'll still admit that the Barcelona setup might still be more expensive to operate than traditional metro stops. But, I suspect the construction cost savings provided by this method are large enough that it would take several decades, if not 100+ years, for the increased operational costs to offset the construction savings. And let's not forget that the economic benefit of building stations that otherwise would not have been built will almost certainly offset the additional operational costs of the Barcelona design.

 

[robmausser]

Barcelona has come up with a potentially cheap method of building stations.

View attachment 137184

The only way to get to the track level is by elevator. The engineers claim that the elevators are fast enough to get passengers to track level without delay, but I’m justifiable sceptical. However the line is already under construction, so we won’t have to wait too much longer to see how it performs in the real world. If this works out for Madrid, then I’d have to problem importing in into Toronto.

They also use several other innovate cost saving measures that are outlined in the article, including methods that eliminate the need for costly emergency passageways and exits.

This might be the most exciting development in subway-building technology since the boring machine!

http://www.cat-bus.com/2017/10/barcelonas-line-9-inspiring-montreals-pink-line/

They are also planning this for the REM

 

[Northern Light]

They are also planning this for the REM

I'd love to hear how this works from a firecode - evacuation capacity standpoint. I assume their are also stairs, but given great depth, how fast can people exit? Also is there a secondary stair well lest the principal path be obstructed?

Otherwise, I have an open mind on this method.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'd love to hear how this works from a firecode - evacuation capacity standpoint. I assume their are also stairs, but given great depth, how fast can people exit? Also is there a secondary stair well lest the principal path be obstructed?

Otherwise, I have an open mind on this method.

Not sure about this particular case, but this is how MTR dealt with the issue at the HKU Station:

https://www.checkerboardhill.com/2015/04/lift-only-mtr-station-entrances/

AoD