Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Midtown Urbanist]

LRT on Finch for a northern crosstown.

BRT on Sheppard East beginning at the zoo and connecting to a multi-modal hub at Don Mills and Sheppard that serves as a transfer between BRT, the Relief Line, and Sheppard subway (which I actually think in the long term should be extended west to Downsview for connectivity reasons).

LRT on Eglinton following Scarborough-Malvern LRT path, actually serving Malvern and not stopping short of it.

BRT on Lawrence and York Mills/Ellesmere. BRT on various north-south arterials like Victoria Park.

And maybe someone with some brains proposes elevated Scarborough Subway on Danforth/McCowan. You could even have stations on Brimley, Lawrence, Sheppard and hell, why not, Finch for a connection to the LRT.

See, it is easy to provide a good transit plan for Scarborough if we stopped thinking about subways.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

can we compromise and get BRT on Ellesmere, Lawrence, Sheppard and a crosstown Eglinton and Finch LRT done? Then in the future you could decide if you want to upgrade the BRT to LRT. I will say I loved my finch express bus growing up in Scarborough so perhaps people would understand BRT better than LRT which many have just wrongfully labeled a glorified streetcar. But LRT on Finch and Eglinton please and thank you.

Imagine hopping on the Lawrence BRT and then transferring to the Relief Line, which will whisk you away downtown in less than 20 minutes. Transformative!

Let me not dream too much - it’s never going to happen

 

[TheTigerMaster]

See, it is easy to provide a good transit plan for Scarborough if we stopped thinking about subways.

Not just Scarborough. I’ve been a big proponent of BRT for all the former boroughs.

 

[sixrings]

Imagine hopping on the Lawrence BRT and then transferring to the Relief Line, which will whisk you away downtown in less than 20 minutes. Transformative!

Let me not dream too much - it’s never going to happen

as a downtowner stop giving scarbrough good ideas please

 

[sixrings]

Not just Scarborough. I’ve been a big proponent of BRT for all the former boroughs.

I also would like to see BRT or LRT where warranted on every blue line bus route in the city. Theres no reason the major routes shouldnt have proper dedicated transit lanes especially in the suburbs which have huge pieces of grass between the street and sidewalk making it easy targets for road widening.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

LRT on Finch for a northern crosstown.

BRT on Sheppard East beginning at the zoo and connecting to a multi-modal hub at Don Mills and Sheppard that serves as a transfer between BRT, the Relief Line, and Sheppard subway (which I actually think in the long term should be extended west to Downsview for connectivity reasons).

LRT on Eglinton following Scarborough-Malvern LRT path, actually serving Malvern and not stopping short of it.

BRT on Lawrence and York Mills/Ellesmere. BRT on various north-south arterials like Victoria Park.

And maybe someone with some brains proposes elevated Scarborough Subway on Danforth/McCowan. You could even have stations on Brimley, Lawrence, Sheppard and hell, why not, Finch for a connection to the LRT.

See, it is easy to provide a good transit plan for Scarborough if we stopped thinking about subways.

Here's a sample trip from Lawrence Avenue East and Bellamy Road North to Queen Station via the Lawrence BRT and Relief Line:

Bellamy to Lawrence Station (DRL) via Lawrence BRT (23 km/h): 23.4 minutes
Lawrence Station (DRL) to Queen Station via DRL (45 km/h): 16.3 minutes
Total: 39.7 (add five to seven minutes to account for waiting time).

The same trip by TTC today takes anywhere from 1 hour to 1 hour 18 minutes. Driving, it currently takes 30 minutes (without rush hour traffic), so the transit trip would be very competitive with driving.

The Kenndy to Queen Station trip via Line 2 and Line 1 takes 32 minutes, so obviously the Line 2 extension would not be remotely competitive for this trip.

 

[BurlOak]

Imagine a network of BRT in Scarborough all connecting to the Relief Line. That would be incredible.

Having another N-S transit line in Central/Eastern Scarborough line may actually make the Sheppard LRT and even the East subway extension less of a requirement.

This could either be with the B-D extended to Finch - which is not my preference, but in the current enviroment it may be the easiest to sell (hopefully someone discovers cut-and-cover and proposes for the same money as the single stop SSE, they can build a 4 stop subway to Finch (Lawrence, STC, Sheppard/McCowan, Finch @ McCowan or Finch @ Markham if the rail area is needed for a TTC yard).
More preferable would be a rapid transit line from Scarborough to downtown along the cheapest route possible (hydro corridor and Don Valley). It still can pick up some traffic along the way, but this is really to keep much of Scarborough away from the Y-B interchange.

Now with the DRL going to Seneca (and maybe eventually a bit farther), buses along Lawrence, Ellesmere, Sheppard, Finch could all go between 2 rapid transit lines. On these buses, the tight stop spacing can be retained. These likely wouldn't warrant subway or LRT, but bus or BRT Lite may be appropriate. The thing that would be nice would be the Sheppard West subway extension - and preferably interlined with the Spadina subway. This way, from Don Mills station, you can either take the DRL to downtown, or Sheppard to make it a good part of the way across town.

It is so difficult to make plans when politicians get the very first step wrong.

 

[sixrings]

Having another N-S transit line in Central/Eastern Scarborough line may actually make the Sheppard LRT and even the East subway extension less of a requirement.

This could either be with the B-D extended to Finch - which is not my preference, but in the current enviroment it may be the easiest to sell (hopefully someone discovers cut-and-cover and proposes for the same money as the single stop SSE, they can build a 4 stop subway to Finch (Lawrence, STC, Sheppard/McCowan, Finch @ McCowan or Finch @ Markham if the rail area is needed for a TTC yard).
More preferable would be a rapid transit line from Scarborough to downtown along the cheapest route possible (hydro corridor and Don Valley). It still can pick up some traffic along the way, but this is really to keep much of Scarborough away from the Y-B interchange.

Now with the DRL going to Seneca (and maybe eventually a bit farther), buses along Lawrence, Ellesmere, Sheppard, Finch could all go between 2 rapid transit lines. On these buses, the tight stop spacing can be retained. These likely wouldn't warrant subway or LRT, but bus or BRT Lite may be appropriate. The thing that would be nice would be the Sheppard West subway extension - and preferably interlined with the Spadina subway. This way, from Don Mills station, you can either take the DRL to downtown, or Sheppard to make it a good part of the way across town.

It is so difficult to make plans when politicians get the very first step wrong.

View attachment 122037

please take this and send it into steve munro or any other transit expert and get their opinion. Im just a rider but as fancy as this looks on a map, it equally looks like a disaster. I only say this because you keep reposting this map and its great to think out of the box but why if this is so great has no one else suggested it. I really like your dufferin Subway though.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Imagine hopping on the Lawrence BRT and then transferring to the Relief Line, which will whisk you away downtown in less than 20 minutes. Transformative!

Let me not dream too much - it’s never going to happen

I was just thinking about how easy it would be to move around Scarborough if we were to actually implement that network and quickly made a map doodle on paint.

I took a sample site at Finch-McCowan, connected to elevated extension of Line 2. The area is highly developable as you have the entire north-west mega-block to develop, as well as plenty in-fill opportunity on the other 3 corners.

With this configuration, Scarborough Town Centre is two subway stops away. Agincourt is one, plus an easy bus ride on Sheppard. If they wanted, they can ride all the way by BRT to Fairview Mall. They can also take the Finch LRT to destinations along that corridor (or to Malvern Town Centre, which I didn't depict). Multiple direct and fairly direct routes to downtown or NYCC. If one line is down, there is excellent redundancy in the network.

Suddenly, this area goes from incredibly poor access to the rest of the city, to fantastic access to the City and across Scarborough.

It also occurred to me while making this that a York Mills-Ellesmere BRT can be looped around Scarborough Town Centre. That could be the secret to unlocking the Town Centre's potential, as everywhere around STC would have easy access to the subway station and therefore be more attractive to development. As an extension, we could also link Centennial College.

 

[sixrings]

I was just thinking about how easy it would be to move around Scarborough if we were to actually implement that network and quickly made a map doodle on paint.

View attachment 122048

I took a sample site at Finch-McCowan, connected to elevated extension of Line 2. The area is highly developable as you have the entire north-west mega-block to develop, as well as plenty in-fill opportunity on the other 3 corners.

With this configuration, Scarborough Town Centre is two subway stops away. Agincourt is one, plus an easy bus ride on Sheppard. If they wanted, they can ride all the way by BRT to Fairview Mall. They can also take the Finch LRT to destinations along that corridor (or to Malvern Town Centre, which I didn't depict). Multiple direct and fairly direct routes to downtown or NYCC. If one line is down, there is excellent redundancy in the network.

Suddenly, this area goes from incredibly poor access to the rest of the city, to fantastic access to the City and across Scarborough.

It also occurred to me while making this that a York Mills-Ellesmere BRT can be looped around Scarborough Town Centre. That could be the secret to unlocking the Town Centre's potential, as everywhere around STC would have easy access to the subway station and therefore be more attractive to development. As an extension, we could also link Centennial College.

if we are going to go ahead with this danforth extension then I too like the idea of stops at sheppard and at finch. I know people want a lawrence stop but if its too hard to do then make a brt on lawrence and connect it to DRL.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

if we are going to go ahead with this danforth extension then I too like the idea of stops at sheppard and at finch. I know people want a lawrence stop but if its too hard to do then make a brt on lawrence and connect it to DRL.

I'm predicating it on the Scarborough Subway being elevated, like Vancouver SkyTrain, which has not ever been discussed in an official capacity for Scarborough.

If it is elevated, we could have stations at Brimley, Lawrence, Sheppard and Finch, probably for cheaper than the current Scarborough subway plan.

 

[sixrings]

I'm predicating it on the Scarborough Subway being elevated, like Vancouver SkyTrain, which has not ever been discussed in an official capacity for Scarborough.

If it is elevated, we could have stations at Brimley, Lawrence, Sheppard and Finch, probably for cheaper than the current Scarborough subway plan.

i wish i believed that was a realistic possibility (the elevated part). it should be but its as hard to dream as brt.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I took a sample site at Finch-McCowan, connected to elevated extension of Line 2. The area is highly developable as you have the entire north-west mega-block to develop, as well as plenty in-fill opportunity on the other 3 corners.

Is there enough room in the McCowan corridor for elevation?

 

[OneCity]

That section doesn't even warrant an LRT according to some on this board. Also the traffic is generally light, so there isn't much benefit to have buses run in median lanes anyways.

Exactly. Bus service improvements and a possibly an LRT extension of Eglinton East one day thru Malvern town Centre. Hardly worth using as justification for poor connectivity of the Core.

And while these people further East on Shappard would have see some benefit, the ones in the West Sheppard would have an extra transfer from a short stretch of LRT to the stub.

 

[TransitBart]

Imagine the Relief Line in place before we retire...