Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[TheTigerMaster]

Nobody has denied that a subway exists between Yonge & Don Mills lol.

LOL sarcasm right? I know a subway was proposed for Sheppard back in the 90s, but obviously would have never been approved because of the low amount of people would use it. Plus I've never heard anybody in this city say that they're going somewhere on a subway on Sheppard.

 

[ehlow]

LOL sarcasm right? I know a subway was proposed for Sheppard back in the 90s, but obviously would have never been approved because of the low amount of people would use it. Plus I've never heard anybody in this city say that they're going somewhere on a subway on Sheppard.

Believe it or not I'm going to use Bessarion station to go to an optometrist appointment . Last time I used it, I went to a dentist appointment near that station and there was only one other person in the whole station.

If MEC gets built I can use it to go there

People who live a 10 min walk from Sheppard-Yonge station won't even use the subway to go to Fairview Mall, because they own a car, there's plenty of parking at the mall, and it's still faster to drive (including the walk).

That's the challenge of a subway in the suburbs that doesn't go downtown. Most people are using the Sheppard subway simply as a feeder into the Yonge subway to go downtown for work. When you're going downtown transit is competitive because of the insanely high cost of parking and traffic.

 

[sixrings]

Believe it or not I'm going to use Bessarion station to go to an optometrist appointment . Last time I used it, I went to a dentist appointment near that station and there was only one other person in the whole station.

If MEC gets built I can use it to go there

People who live a 10 min walk from Sheppard-Yonge station won't even use the subway to go to Fairview Mall, because they own a car, there's plenty of parking at the mall, and it's still faster to drive (including the walk).

That's the challenge of a subway in the suburbs that doesn't go downtown. Most people are using the Sheppard subway simply as a feeder into the Yonge subway to go downtown for work. When you're going downtown transit is competitive because of the insanely high cost of parking and traffic.

Same with me. I live close enough to walk to Eglinton West station and I go to Yorkdale quite a bit. But I almost never take the subway because parking is free. Honestly I believe parking should cost money at malls. People in Canada are addicted to malls because of the crappy weather. People are going to go anyway. It might cut down some window shoppers but most people are still going to go if they have to pay a toonie or not. If it cost me 2$ to park at Yorkdale I would probably TTC it 75% of the time just because its a headache parking there to begin with.

 

[Forgotten]

I agree but I doubt I'll see that before I die. So again, what to do in the meantime?

Since the Scarborough choo choo train will make it even more useless, I say fill the existing thing with moth balls and save the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars per year. I'm tired of my tax dollars being used to prop up the elites of Willowdale in their multi million dollar mcmansions.

The McCowan Subway will actually increase the ridership on the SELRT I think, but it will lower the peak point ridership. Instead of being a uni-directional flow to Don Mills station, it will be a bi-directional flow, particularly between Don Mills and McCowan. Many of the riders from east of McCowan will get off at McCowan instead, opening up space for riders further down the line. Some of the riders west of McCowan, who without the Scarborough Subway would have rode west to Don Mills, would instead ride east to the Scarborough Subway. This increases counter-peak flow, and decreases peak point ridership.

Yeah but no one in the real world wastes their time doing things like that anywhere.

 

[nhui06]

Interesting I saw one of those Artic long buses on Sheppard between Markham Rd and McCowan. I think it was a practice bus.

With the Pan Am games coming, and the new Swimming pool at U of T Scarborough, I think the government should use some of that LRT money to start widening Sheppard - say from Pharmacy to Midland Rd. Next, put diamond bus lanes - the 190 will surely benefit since it turns on Midland to STC. I would also reduce the 85 service, and have the long arctic buses follow the same stop route as the LRT, but then end at U of T Scarborough (once it gets to Moringside). They can then see whether this route works well (when they do eventually build the LRT).

 

[innsertnamehere]

Yeah but no one in the real world wastes their time doing things like that anywhere.

I don't think you understand what Gweed was saying..

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Believe it or not I'm going to use Bessarion station to go to an optometrist appointment . Last time I used it, I went to a dentist appointment near that station and there was only one other person in the whole station.

If MEC gets built I can use it to go there

People who live a 10 min walk from Sheppard-Yonge station won't even use the subway to go to Fairview Mall, because they own a car, there's plenty of parking at the mall, and it's still faster to drive (including the walk).

That's the challenge of a subway in the suburbs that doesn't go downtown. Most people are using the Sheppard subway simply as a feeder into the Yonge subway to go downtown for work. When you're going downtown transit is competitive because of the insanely high cost of parking and traffic.

I maintain a TTC transfer collection - in fact I've been collecting for around a year and a half now, almost as long as I have been a regular user of the system, and my goal is to eventually collect a transfer from each subway and RT station. Back in January I had a dentist appointment on Sheppard in Scarborough and took the 190 to Don Mills so I could take the subway downtown for the day. Along the way I got off at Bessarion so that I could collect a transfer from there.

Suffice it to say, heading up to the cavernous empty mezzanine, taking a transfer, and then returning to platform level alone - all the while feeling the collector's eyes boring in the back of my skull - was a slightly awkward experience

I can't see a subway extension on Sheppard being viable. Even if the capital costs were put up by various levels of government for an extension eastward to replace the LRT, it would cost Toronto unreasonable amounts of money to operate the damn thing each year at such a considerable loss. If it were up to me I would bite the bullet now and convert the subway tunnel for LRT so that it could serve as an underground segment of a combined Sheppard East - Sheppard tunnel - Sheppard extension to Downsview - interline with Finch West route, providing one seamless LRT line across northern Metro, but the costs there too are almost entirely prohibitive.

Building the stubway was a serious impediment to transit development in Toronto - because now we have this small piece of infrastructure built to such high standards that any crosstown route across the north of the city which doesn't implement it in some way seems a waste, but which is too poorly located and ineffective to actually accomplish anything.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I maintain a TTC transfer collection - in fact I've been collecting for around a year and a half now, almost as long as I have been a regular user of the system, and my goal is to eventually collect a transfer from each subway and RT station. Back in January I had a dentist appointment on Sheppard in Scarborough and took the 190 to Don Mills so I could take the subway downtown for the day. Along the way I got off at Bessarion so that I could collect a transfer from there.

Suffice it to say, heading up to the cavernous empty mezzanine, taking a transfer, and then returning to platform level alone - all the while feeling the collector's eyes boring in the back of my skull - was a slightly awkward experience

I can't see a subway extension on Sheppard being viable. Even if the capital costs were put up by various levels of government for an extension eastward to replace the LRT, it would cost Toronto unreasonable amounts of money to operate the damn thing each year at such a considerable loss. If it were up to me I would bite the bullet now and convert the subway tunnel for LRT so that it could serve as an underground segment of a combined Sheppard East - Sheppard tunnel - Sheppard extension to Downsview - interline with Finch West route, providing one seamless LRT line across northern Metro, but the costs there too are almost entirely prohibitive.

Building the stubway was a serious impediment to transit development in Toronto - because now we have this small piece of infrastructure built to such high standards that any crosstown route across the north of the city which doesn't implement it in some way seems a waste, but which is too poorly located and ineffective to actually accomplish anything.

If the subway was on Finch I don't think anyone would be opposed to extending it tbh.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If the subway was on Finch I don't think anyone would be opposed to extending it tbh.

Please tell me you're joking? If it were a subway on Finch you'd be hard pressed to fund someone on UT supporting building the thing in the first place.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Please tell me you're joking? If it were a subway on Finch you'd be hard pressed to fund someone on UT supporting building the thing in the first place.

If the choice was between a northern cross-town LRT route on Sheppard or on Finch, with the existing Sheppard Subway not existing, I would think Finch is a better fit to be honest.

A Finch subway though...that's not but a twinkle in Rob Ford's misguided, misguided eye

 

[ehlow]

I maintain a TTC transfer collection - in fact I've been collecting for around a year and a half now, almost as long as I have been a regular user of the system, and my goal is to eventually collect a transfer from each subway and RT station. Back in January I had a dentist appointment on Sheppard in Scarborough and took the 190 to Don Mills so I could take the subway downtown for the day. Along the way I got off at Bessarion so that I could collect a transfer from there.

Suffice it to say, heading up to the cavernous empty mezzanine, taking a transfer, and then returning to platform level alone - all the while feeling the collector's eyes boring in the back of my skull - was a slightly awkward experience

I can't see a subway extension on Sheppard being viable. Even if the capital costs were put up by various levels of government for an extension eastward to replace the LRT, it would cost Toronto unreasonable amounts of money to operate the damn thing each year at such a considerable loss. If it were up to me I would bite the bullet now and convert the subway tunnel for LRT so that it could serve as an underground segment of a combined Sheppard East - Sheppard tunnel - Sheppard extension to Downsview - interline with Finch West route, providing one seamless LRT line across northern Metro, but the costs there too are almost entirely prohibitive.

Building the stubway was a serious impediment to transit development in Toronto - because now we have this small piece of infrastructure built to such high standards that any crosstown route across the north of the city which doesn't implement it in some way seems a waste, but which is too poorly located and ineffective to actually accomplish anything.

Wow a year and a half? Have you gotten a transfer at each station yet?

Yeah I'm glad Eglinton will be a long continuous line where you don't need to transfer to continue in the same direction, instead of a short subway with two bus lines on either end, especially when it's extended to the airport.

 

[ehlow]

If the choice was between a northern cross-town LRT route on Sheppard or on Finch, with the existing Sheppard Subway not existing, I would think Finch is a better fit to be honest.

A Finch subway though...that's not but a twinkle in Rob Ford's misguided, misguided eye

Why would you choose Finch over Sheppard? Sheppard seems to have more density along it.

 

[11th]

Please tell me you're joking? If it were a subway on Finch you'd be hard pressed to fund someone on UT supporting building the thing in the first place.

I agree. Finch East is even more "suburban" than Sheppard East. Just look at the map on the city's website - at least Sheppard has more properties fronting onto the street; for Finch East, it's mostly the backyards of subdivisions. There's a reason why the Finch East bus has high ridership and it's not because it's a busier street.

 

[ehlow]

The Finch bus has a very high ridership. Maybe it's a better idea to do Finch as a long continuous LRT route from Etobicoke to Scarborough and leave Sheppard as is.

The only issue is that some parts of it between Yonge & Leslie can be narrow.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Wow a year and a half? Have you gotten a transfer at each station yet?

I have one from almost every station on the YUS, all of Sheppard, and all of the SRT except Ellesmere and Midland. Only a few from Bloor though...I don't head out to the west end too often, and when I do it's more often via GO than TTC. Still, it's an ongoing project.

Why would you choose Finch over Sheppard? Sheppard seems to have more density along it.

I would say that Sheppard does have more density on it...now, after the Sheppard Subway has spurred development along the central section so thoroughly. But outside of that the two are largely the same suburban streetscape, though as 11th notes Sheppard does have more street-front properties. Finch does have its own clusters of high-density areas composed of aging high-rises, especially in Scarborough (in the area of Finch at Warden is a great example). I feel that Finch is a better fit from a network connectivity standpoint, being further north (closer to York Region and thus easier transfers for connecting routes to employment areas in Markham, Vaughan etc., also connecting to the massive bus hub that is Finch Station). And of course in the west end, the Finch West bus has well-established ridership and passes through many low-income transit-starved neighbourhoods (Rexdale and a lot of Northern Etobicoke comes to mind).

But this is all conjecture, and don't get me wrong, I don't think Finch is the solution to a proper continuous northern rapid transit route in Toronto. Like I said earlier, if I had the ability (and funding) to make the choice, I would use the existing Sheppard tunnel as an LRT tunnel to connect Sheppard East and Finch West into one line.