Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[TheTigerMaster]

Personally I would like Scarboro to become an urban center of its own. That would argue for the subway being on Sheppard, and not so many people carried downtown....because the jobs and the places to go are created in the north end of town. Downtown will grow enough on its own, and more people who work downtown can live downtown.

It's as if the people who are arguing for the most expensive transit for the Scarboro RT have the lowest vision for this part of town.

- Paul

That will never, ever happen. We tried that in the 1980s/90s and failed spectacularly. In fact part of the downtown office construction boom is fuelled by, companies in Scarborough Centre, Mississauga, Airport, NYC trying to move back downtown, where their employees would rather live and work.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Kelly
Cho
Soo Wong
Karygiannis
Duguid (allegedy)
Michelle Berardinetti
Lorenzo Berardinetti
Doug Ford
Rob Ford

DoFo and most likely RoFo will be eliminated in a few days.

 

[ehlow]

The province isn't interested in the DRL. They will be pushing Metrolinx RER first. This is why Tory's Smart Track is a stroke of brilliance. Just watch what happens after the election.

Queen's Park is not about to prioritize a $6 billion subway to serve (relatively speaking....i get that ridership will be high) a handful of ridings and some commuters when they can bolster service across the region for that price.

Either way, the point was that if they really prefer nothing to having an LRT, then it's a win-win. They get nothing, we re-direct the funds to one of the many much-needed transit projects.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The province isn't interested in the DRL. They will be pushing Metrolinx RER first. This is why Tory's Smart Track is a stroke of brilliance. Just watch what happens after the election.

Queen's Park is not about to prioritize a $6 billion subway to serve (relatively speaking....i get that ridership will be high) a handful of ridings and some commuters when they can bolster service across the region for that price.

It doesn't matter what the province is interested in. Remember that Yonge Line is the backbone of the transportation network in the GTA. The fact of the matter is that our Yonge North Subway Extension and our GO RER/SmartTrack plans will make crowding on 1 Yonge Line worse, not better. The Relief Line absolutely has to be built. There is no way around that. The future of our region is dependant on it. Either we built it now, or the prosperity of our region will be severely harmed in 15 years. Queens Park can play politics if they wish (they control the money, after all), but there will be dire consequences for everyone in GTHA if they do.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That will never, ever happen. We tried that in the 1980s/90s and failed spectacularly. In fact part of the downtown office construction boom is fuelled by, companies in Scarborough Centre, Mississauga, Airport, NYC trying to move back downtown, where their employees would rather live and work.

DoFo and most likely RoFo will be eliminated in a few days.

Switch up question: Tiger, do you think NYCC, STC and Islington Village are failures? NYCC, I don't think so.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Switch up question: Tiger, do you think NYCC, STC and Islington Village are failures? NYCC, I don't think so.

STC and Etobicoke City Centre have pretty well been flops. NYCC, less so, but it's such a small slice of North York's geographic area - go only a couple of streets over in either direction and you're back into suburban residential housing again.

I cannot believe that there is still such a pushback from Scarborough councillors and MPPs over the SELRT. Hopefully they'll quieten a bit once the Crosstown opens and the pro-LRT crowd gets a strong example of how a real in-median LRT works (in Scarborough no less!). Still, the threat is real. The province needs to hold fast on this, or else Sheppard will just end up with nothing.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Switch up question: Tiger, do you think NYCC, STC and Islington Village are failures? NYCC, I don't think so.

The only one that has been a remote success, in my opinion, is NYCC. And even then NYCC is comically small compared to Downtown Toronto. And the only reason for it's success is it's easy access to Downtown Toronto.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

STC and Etobicoke City Centre have pretty well been flops. NYCC, less so, but it's such a small slice of North York's geographic area - go only a couple of streets over in either direction and you're back into suburban residential housing again.

I cannot believe that there is still such a pushback from Scarborough councillors and MPPs over the SELRT. Hopefully they'll quieten a bit once the Crosstown opens and the pro-LRT crowd gets a strong example of how a real in-median LRT works (in Scarborough no less!). Still, the threat is real. The province needs to hold fast on this, or else Sheppard will just end up with nothing.

Hi, Mrs Nesbitt, how are you? I tend to agree with, I think the problem was not the lack of subway since Etobicoke and North York had subways. It was the corporate tax rates. They were too. High. Now when the city revived, people skipped them for downtown. Notice these days the heat is all about Downtown followed buy Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham and even Milton. Oakville when people want to talk about the Bay Street Wealthy (like my parents). For the subway: the problem is the push is coming out of parts of Queens Park. The Liberals said they were subway champions.

The only one that has been a remote success, in my opinion, is NYCC. And even then NYCC is comically small compared to Downtown Toronto.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/14/can-yonge-and-sheppard-ever-be-like-yonge-and-eglinton/

I don't think Y+S is a commercial strip so much anymore.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Whether or not the LRT will go through will depend on whether or not council is left or right leaning next year. Unfortunately I haven't been following the Council races too closely, so I guess I'll have to wait to the 27th before making any predictions regarding the future of this LRT

 

[GenerationW]

The Relief Line absolutely has to be built. There is no way around that.

There's a really easy way around it -- by not building it. The idea that the DRL is a sure thing has always been a false notion.

Why aren't today's posts on the SELRT thread? This is about cancelling the LRT, not extending the subway (which is an incredible long shot to get approved in the next four years).

 

[ehlow]

Whether or not the LRT will go through will depend on whether or not council is left or right leaning next year. Unfortunately I haven't been following the Council races too closely, so I guess I'll have to wait to the 27th before making any predictions regarding the future of this LRT

Why would there even be a council vote on the matter?

 

[kEiThZ]

It doesn't matter what the province is interested in. Remember that Yonge Line is the backbone of the transportation network in the GTA. The fact of the matter is that our Yonge North Subway Extension and our GO RER/SmartTrack plans will make crowding on 1 Yonge Line worse, not better. The Relief Line absolutely has to be built. There is no way around that. The future of our region is dependant on it. Either we built it now, or the prosperity of our region will be severely harmed in 15 years. Queens Park can play politics if they wish (they control the money, after all), but there will be dire consequences for everyone in GTHA if they do.

Nobody has yet successfully explained how the DRL will relieve the Yonge Line. It will relieve Yonge-Bloor by reducing the transfers. But how will it relieve the whole Yonge Line?

Smart Track or GO RER can provide the same amount of relief as the DRL as far as Yonge-Bloor is concerned. The real question is how to relieve the whole Yonge Line by diverting a good proportion of the demand from the north. I suspect that can't be done without involving some kind of Richmond Hill RER.

Also Smart Track/RER actually uses counter-peak flow out of Union. And the DRL really won't do much to serve that ridership as an East-West subway line.

 

[BurlOak]

Why would you choose Skytrain over that? There is no cost advantage. You can automate subway tech just like Skytrain.

Not sure, but could SkyTrain rise at a steep grade so it could elevate over 404, whereas subway needs to go under. That savings would more than pay for the SkyTrain conversion.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'm really hoping at some point conversion of Sheppard to LRT comes up.

To be quite frank, this is the only politically palatable solution in my eyes. Basically, the sales pitch would be "no transfers" and "one seat ride from Scarborough to Downsview" as the "northern crosstown".

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Nobody has yet successfully explained how the DRL will relieve the Yonge Line. It will relieve Yonge-Bloor by reducing the transfers. But how will it relieve the whole Yonge Line?

Smart Track or GO RER can provide the same amount of relief as the DRL as far as Yonge-Bloor is concerned. The real question is how to relieve the whole Yonge Line by diverting a good proportion of the demand from the north. I suspect that can't be done without involving some kind of Richmond Hill RER.

Simple. Bring the DRL to Sheppard. Everyone from Scarborough gets off at the Fairview Mall stop. Attracts people from Richmond Hill, Markham, Aurora as well.