W. K. Lis
Superstar
Let's hear from the usual suspects at Toronto Transportation on why we can't have this on Toronto's walkways or roadways?
From link.
From link.
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Shabby Public Realm
- Thread starter junctionist
- Start date
Richard White
Senior Member
There is probably a city lawyer out there that says this may not be AODA compliant or a liability issue because it is not smooth concrete.
Northern Light
Superstar
We already have all-brick sidewalks and roads in select locations.
There is no liability issue associated with this.
The issue by and large, is upfront cost; and non-standardized material.
The City is getting a bit better at accepting these, though generally only with the financial support of BIAs
Richard White
Senior Member
It was sarcasm. Most things in this city never get done because the city is afraid of getting sued.
Northern Light
Superstar
In terms of the material, we already do have brick in select locations; though far too few.
In terms of that technology for putting it in; I'd be intrigued to see the City deploy that.
Northern Light
Superstar
I assume @W. K. Lis post features a photo to some, but as I only see it via following the link, I thought I'd post it here:
From here: https://scontent.fyzd1-3.fna.fbcdn....=f5e8a95faf27f26c06fae2b88f48d119&oe=5FDAD90E
From here: https://scontent.fyzd1-3.fna.fbcdn....=f5e8a95faf27f26c06fae2b88f48d119&oe=5FDAD90E
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Not just bricks.
Toronto has to use paint on top of asphalt, instead of using coloured asphalt. The paint will wear away over time, in addition they make the surface more slippery.
Toronto has to use paint on top of asphalt, instead of using coloured asphalt. The paint will wear away over time, in addition they make the surface more slippery.
Towered
Senior Member
Toronto's never seen a penny it refused to pinch.
Northern Light
Superstar
yrt+viva=1system
Active Member
Random thought of the day (well it's been on my mind for a while now): Is it just me or does Toronto seem to always half-ass projects? It almost seems like the City doesn't even try or if it does it doesn't hold third party partners accountable for poor outcomes. It's a very general thought and I know that the City has standards manuals but what's the point of producing these if they don't even follow through on their own standards? A good example is the Forestry department that doesn't even consult its own standards for species of trees that should be planted.
The most recent shabby public realm that prompted my curiosity is the poor infrastructure construction and this being simple road, curbs and sidewalk reconstruction. Some of the poor craftsmanship can outright be noticed and leaves one to wonder how its even acceptable. I know that it would never fly in other municipal jurisdictions and would lead to the contractor to do it right the first time or re-do it. So why does the City seem to let this pass?
Random thoughts.
The most recent shabby public realm that prompted my curiosity is the poor infrastructure construction and this being simple road, curbs and sidewalk reconstruction. Some of the poor craftsmanship can outright be noticed and leaves one to wonder how its even acceptable. I know that it would never fly in other municipal jurisdictions and would lead to the contractor to do it right the first time or re-do it. So why does the City seem to let this pass?
Random thoughts.
yrt+viva=1system
Active Member
Let me just say from personal experience in the asphalt industry, it is very expensive to produce coloured asphalt. It's almost about 5x the cost of standard black asphalt. The additives required are not environmentally friendly, cost of sourcing the colouring addictive and the cost of laying down coloured asphalt comes from designating separate construction vehicles and production plants to maintain a consistent colour without contamination. Then there is the cleaning of production equipment after a project is finished..
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afransen
Senior Member
Apparently such brick-laying machines aren't all that widely employed in NL, most are laid by hand. The higher material cost is offset by the fact that the pavers last forever and can be relaid following repairs/utility access. I wonder if they would stand up to Canadian levels of salting and freeze/thaw. I suspect our winters would be harder on them than NL would see--though they do get snow.
afransen
Senior Member
It is used extensively in NL as a top-coat for bike paths. They tend to last a very long time because bikes are essentially like having no traffic at all (inconsequential loading). As I understand it, they use red as it is the cheapest colour to produce. It comes at a premium but it is probably done at sufficient scale that the premium is not so large as to make a dramatic impact on project cost. Unlike a BRT roadway, which I imagine would need to be built to higher load rating and would not last as long.
yrt+viva=1system
Active Member
That is part of the equation for the cost. Sourcing the material is the predominant driver of the cost. For example red pigmentation is created from adding iron oxide which happens to be only readily available from Germany. So the cost of transporting the material is much less to the Netherlands from Germany than to Canada (the VIVA project had to ship a lot of the red stuff from Germany for part of the project).
This is of course depends on what method you want to make your coloured asphalt:
eg. start with black asphalt > make it white > then pigmentation for the required colour
eg. create clear asphalt > add pigmentation
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rbt
Senior Member
They get snow but it rarely goes below zero long enough for the ground to freeze.
That said, Toronto has lots of brickwork (on the waterfront) that survives winter perfectly well. A thick concrete layer with brick/sand on top seems to work well here. The thick concrete layer doesn't make utility cuts any easier but the brick would hide the repair.
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