Shabby Public Realm

[Northern Light]

Toronto has had brick roads for over a century, and some of the original bits from that time are still in tact.

Notably in Forest Hill.

But also down in the Old Mill area as well.

Done properly these can be made to last.

 

[rbt]

Toronto has had brick roads for over a century, and some of the original bits from that time are still in tact.

Interesting. I was only aware of May St. in Rosedale which is so rough it's actually difficult to walk down at night. May St. also has the vertical sewers (hole in the curb type design) that people here like too; which plug with snow quite very easily.

 

[DSC]

Interesting. I was only aware of May St. in Rosedale which is so rough it's actually difficult to walk down at night. May St. also has the vertical sewers (hole in the curb type design) that people here like too; which plug with snow quite very easily.

You may want to look at this whole thread on Toronto's Brick Streets> https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/brick-and-cobblestone-streets-in-toronto.15607/

 

[vic]

That is part of the equation for the cost. Sourcing the material is the predominant driver of the cost. For example red pigmentation is created from adding iron oxide which happens to be only readily available from Germany. So the cost of transporting the material is much less to the Netherlands from Germany than to Canada (the VIVA project had to ship a lot of the red stuff from Germany for part of the project).

This is of course depending on what method you want to make your coloured asphalt:

eg. start with black asphalt > make it white > then pigmentation for the required colour
eg. create clear asphalt > add pigmentation

How does it work when it comes time to scrape up and recycle coloured asphalt? My understanding is that it's a very heavily recycled item. Does colour cause it to have to be separated, or worse, discarded?

 

[TrickyRicky]

As I mentioned in this thread before I find from experience that interlock (brick or concrete pavers) hold ice much more than concrete. A minor detail but basically unless you salt the crap out of it, interlock and brick are liabilities in the frozen months. At this point I would personally never chose interlock or brick as a path pavement treatment for a rental property.

 

[Johnny Au]

Toronto has had brick roads for over a century, and some of the original bits from that time are still in tact.

Notably in Forest Hill.

But also down in the Old Mill area as well.

Done properly these can be made to last.

There's Chiltern Hill Road in Cedarvale that even has the brick roadbed exposed in some sections.

 

[Northern Light]

Permeable concrete has been used in some small Minnesota towns to great effect, including in winter.

How a Twin Cities Suburb Has Led The Way With Permeable Pavement

The new type of road lets cities avoid using salt in winter.

nextcity.org

There are lots of interesting options out there.

I'll add there is a version of this with interlocking pavers as well.

This is not suited to roads with high volumes of traffic or lots of heavy trucks.

Permeable pavement (asphalt, concrete, or pavers)

Permeable pavements are designed to allow percolation or infiltration of storm water through the pavement surface.

www.dnr.state.mn.us

 

[afransen]

How does it work when it comes time to scrape up and recycle coloured asphalt? My understanding is that it's a very heavily recycled item. Does colour cause it to have to be separated, or worse, discarded?

I don't see why it couldn't be blended with other recycled asphalt. You might see the odd bit of colour but it would be almost completely coated.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

How does it work when it comes time to scrape up and recycle coloured asphalt? My understanding is that it's a very heavily recycled item. Does colour cause it to have to be separated, or worse, discarded?

In the industry recycled asphalt or what is ripped up is called recycled asphalt pavement (RAP). There actually isn't much coloured RAP since it's seldom laid down but if it's ripped up it is usually dumped into a separate RAP pile. Mind you most coloured asphalt is used for parking lots or pathways and the red-pinkish colour of say some roads are usually due to the aggregate used (eg. granite from northern Ontario).
Most newly repaved roads in the province only contain about 3-5% RAP and this specification is determined by the customer; eg. MTO mandates 3% RAP for all the 400 series highways. The problem with using RAP and the reason why one usually sees gargantuan mountains of old asphalt on asphalt plant yards is that it's very difficult to use. RAP can contain huge variations of materials and different grades of asphalt concrete (the actual black tar like substance is called asphalt or asphalt concrete, what is laid down on a road way is known as hot mix). Then there is the question of how old is the RAP and the exposure to weathering since it does sit outdoors, over time asphalt concrete washes off (its not a solid). Touching back on the question of materials used on old roadways, some roads like the ones in cities may contain asbestos. To make it even more challenging is the fact that some roads paved in the last 10 years have been using materials such as recycled tire particles, old motor oil collected from the automobile industry and crude vegetable oil. Mainly to cut cost but also being mandated to make roads more environmentally friendly. These roads don't have the durability of older roads. So to sort of answer your question, old coloured asphalt might be used but more often it is condemned to a pile at the very back corner of a yard. Over the span of almost 10 years, I've only had to deal with coloured asphalt hot mix on two occasions; one being the time I was making sample colour asphalt pucks for customers (various shades of white, red, green and blue) and two being the VIVA busway.

Fun fact, RAP in the lower levels of stratification can look identical and smell like fresh triple mix garden soil.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I'm sure there are a number of interesting engineering and material solutions. As someone trained as an engineer I'd love to employ a technical solution. I know at the municipal level they talk about it all the time, then the legal team advises and everyone just goes back to dumping crap loads of salt on things. You can only be sued so many times before you just give up on that file. You would have to reform the legal system to see technical solutions widely adopted. I tell guys all the time to go easy on the salt but then why bother? I'm actually opening myself up to liability simply for suggesting it. How about capping injury payout for slip-fall accidents to $1000 max

 

[TrickyRicky]

Here is a CBC article about insurance rates driving snow clearing contractors out of business as follow up and interest to people to show how seemingly unrelated issues effect our streetscape and built environment:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5818604

 

[deerparker]

 

[lenaitch]

Here is a CBC article about insurance rates driving snow clearing contractors out of business as follow up and interest to people to show how seemingly unrelated issues effect our streetscape and built environment:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5818604

I know a couple of folks in the game and they say the same thing. One has completely given up working in urban areas. In small-lot residential areas, if he put snow on municipal property, bylaw fined him and if he worked commercial jobs the insurance killed him. Most residential customers don't ask about insurance and suburban/rural properties have more space to push snow.

 

[Northern Light]

This may be an odd fit for this thread.

I'm going to complain about something that arguably looks nice.

Its just the wrong kind of nice for the spot!

I was out on a walk today at was walking through the west side of St. George campus at the U of T.

As I'm walking down Huron.............I notice some pedestrian lighting.........and it just makes go............huh?

So first, I see these heritage-style lights here, between New College and the Recreation Centre.

So I ask myself...............one building screams 1960s............the other screams 1950s................who exactly thought 19th Century lighting would be a good match?

There isn't one building here, nor any other context that calls for this lighting type.

Then I see the same lighting by McClennan Physical Labs.......

Uhhh.......how does that go here either?