Seven ways to make Toronto a world-class city again

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tried that already - Americans burned it to the ground. Bad karma.

Probably saved it the fate of having the job done by ourselves, considering the outcome for most civic buildings of the era.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

There's is no point in envying cities with institutions like those. They are products of their time that cannot be reproduced. We cannot resuscitate Frank Lloyd Wight or Louis Sullivan and commission buildings here to be on par with Buffalo just as we cannot commission Diego Rivera to paint us some original murals depicting the distilling process at Gooderham and Worts. We must stop longing for a past we cannot have and focus on how to cultivate and innovate new, I suppose 'world class' trends.

We should appreciate the amazing things in other cities and find inspiration there, but in no way should we view the wonderful things we have here as less simply because they are different. On the contrary they are more significant and interesting to outsiders because they are different, i.e. the Group of Seven collection at the AGO or McMichael, or Toronto iterations of international architecture trends, i.e. Eden Smith Arts & Crafts. It's the fact that we devalue our local history and heritage through comparisons to the USA and Europe that leads us to bulldoze these buildings on a massive scale, that leaves us without a sense of identity.

... so yes, it is important to keep innovating and building/designing in ways that makes sense to our collective 'us' but we do also need to honour our past and the achievements that led to who and where we are now.

 

[WislaHD]

Just curious, who here would consider any (or all) of these cities "World Class"?

Seoul
Mexico City
Beijing
Mumbai
Moscow
Buenos Aires
Istanbul
Rio

If I were to compile a list based on power and influence on a global scale...

New York City
London
Paris
Tokyo
Hong Kong
Singapore
Sao Paulo

Then you have your next tier of cities. Toronto, Los Angeles, Chicago, Sydney, Melbourne, Moscow, Beijing, Shanghai, Amsterdam, Kuala Lampur, Seoul, Milan and Dubai.

Interestingly, I think that I would rather live in many of those second tier of cities over some of those first tier 'world class' cities. Some of the references made by other posters in this thread about world class not necessarily equating with livable cities might ring true.

 

[WislaHD]

I've been reading through this thread for the first time and I think the one small thing that Toronto can do that can make a big big difference on the way we perceive our city and city life is relaxing our alcohol restrictions.

The one thing I really enjoyed while I was in Europe last summer was how casual the drinking culture was. You could stroll through a park, the old city, or any other street even in the suburbs and you can find a nice casual place to meet, sit down and order a drink, relax and socialize with friends and family. Our alcohol laws here are comparatively strict and prohibitive.

We already have a phenomenal restaurant and food culture in Toronto, and I think embracing patios and bars, extending last hour, and relaxing our liquor laws in general can compliment what we already have and make a big difference on the way we perceive our social spaces and civic community. Not to mention, it would just feel so typically Torontonian! We are a city of neighbourhoods after all.

 

[Torontovibe]

I've been reading through this thread for the first time and I think the one small thing that Toronto can do that can make a big big difference on the way we perceive our city and city life is relaxing our alcohol restrictions.

The one thing I really enjoyed while I was in Europe last summer was how casual the drinking culture was. You could stroll through a park, the old city, or any other street even in the suburbs and you can find a nice casual place to meet, sit down and order a drink, relax and socialize with friends and family. Our alcohol laws here are comparatively strict and prohibitive.

We already have a phenomenal restaurant and food culture in Toronto, and I think embracing patios and bars, extending last hour, and relaxing our liquor laws in general can compliment what we already have and make a big difference on the way we perceive our social spaces and civic community. Not to mention, it would just feel so typically Torontonian! We are a city of neighbourhoods after all.

+1

As for world class cities, Is San Paulo world class? For me, Paris, New York and London are great cities, the others I'm not so sure about. Los Angles is a big suburb pretending to be a city. It has its appeal for many people but I still don't see it as being even second tier. (well, unless you have a parking lot fetish) That place is deader then a door nail. (nobody walks in LA)

 

[Tewder]

We already have a phenomenal restaurant and food culture in Toronto...

Hmmmm, i'm not sure. We have some really good restaurants and some good but overpriced food in this city, yes. What city of Toronto's size and population doesn't? A food culture though? No. This is something that runs deeper. There is no unique cuisine or taste palette or preparation technique or philosophy of food in this city that I can think of. For the most part we ape trends from other places, and usually late to the table when at it. Food in this city is fairly elitist, driven by fads and trends. We lack an honest 'food of the people' so to speak, which along with exorbitant food costs and inflated taxes is partly what makes eating well so expensive and fairly unattainable for most. Outside of some solid ethnic eats in the suburbs, we are not much more than a sysco-truck chicken-wing deep-fryer culture. I've been to far smaller un-hip middling cities in the U.S. and found better, more affordable/accessible and more soulful food than i find in Toronto.

Again, this is not to say there aren't some fantastic chefs and excellent restaurants in this city. There are. I'd even say there are some glimmers here and there of an emerging local philosophy but even this may just be a trend. 'Local' is on everyone's lips these days it seems. It remains to be seen the long term impact it will have on how we eat.

 

[WislaHD]

+1

As for world class cities, Is San Paulo world class? For me, Paris, New York and London are great cities, the others I'm not so sure about. Los Angles is a big suburb pretending to be a city. It has its appeal for many people but I still don't see it as being even second tier. (well, unless you have a parking lot fetish) That place is deader then a door nail. (nobody walks in LA)

Second largest city in all of the Americas, the financial, business and economic capital of South America, home to the Sao Paulo Stock Exchange and the headquarters of many international companies, largest melting pot in the Americas south of the United States. It is also a sprawled metropolis.

I liken it to city that is Chicago and Los Angeles combined together in build form and influence. Maybe it isn't as glamorous as Paris, NYC and London but it is already a globally influential city and will only grow in influence this century. (So long as they fix their water problem. )

Agreed on Los Angeles, but you cannot deny its cultural and business influence. As sprawled as Los Angeles is, it was initially a city of street suburbs before the car, that could be revived into livable, walkable neighbourhoods. Californians are an innovative people, I don't doubt they will find ways this century to counter their history of sprawl. They kind of have to given the looming issue of water scarcity.

Speaking of water scarcity in Sao Paulo and Los Angeles, we don't really think about how lucky we are in Toronto to be blessed with such access to clean drinking water. That doesn't make us complacent either, as I believe we are also world leaders in recycling clean water.

 

[M.R.Victor]

I find food in Ontario quite lacking because the quality of ingredients is quite poor (at certain levels of affordability and availability that is). This is likely due to factory farming, a short growing season, and the fact that much of our food is imported during the winter, specifically fruits and vegetables. By comparison, in my home country, what is considered "poor man's food" there is endlessly more flavorful than what we have here. But it is what it is.

Back to Toronto being a world class city, I have a story to share from last night. My cabbie was a 30 year-old Pakistani who loved living here. He has a very holistic view on God, religion and culture, facilitate by the varied cultures and religions he encountered here. This man spoke like a truly enlightened human being. He spoke about the ability to see the good in every culture and in every way of doing things, and he spoke of making this city an even better place by virtue of our own contributions. Multiculturalism is just a word until an experience like that gives it meaning. I for one was quite moved indeed.

 

[MisterF]

If 'no overhead wires' is the mark of a 'world-class' city, I think we can scratch places like Tokyo and Amsterdam off the list

What do you mean? Amsterdam's overhead wires are limited to those needed for streetcars. It doesn't have the mess over overhead power lines clumsily strung up on wooden poles covered in rusty staples that you find all over Toronto. Amsterdam has no equivalent to Queen West or College Street with their ubiquitous overhead clutter. I've never been to Tokyo but from what I've seen on Street View the overhead wires are mostly limited to side streets. They do a far better job than Toronto of getting rid of overhead wires on main streets. The degree to which busy commercial streets are plagued with overhead wires is something I've never seen outside of Ontario.

I've been reading through this thread for the first time and I think the one small thing that Toronto can do that can make a big big difference on the way we perceive our city and city life is relaxing our alcohol restrictions.

The one thing I really enjoyed while I was in Europe last summer was how casual the drinking culture was. You could stroll through a park, the old city, or any other street even in the suburbs and you can find a nice casual place to meet, sit down and order a drink, relax and socialize with friends and family. Our alcohol laws here are comparatively strict and prohibitive.

We already have a phenomenal restaurant and food culture in Toronto, and I think embracing patios and bars, extending last hour, and relaxing our liquor laws in general can compliment what we already have and make a big difference on the way we perceive our social spaces and civic community. Not to mention, it would just feel so typically Torontonian! We are a city of neighbourhoods after all.

Well it looks like the province is taking some tentative first steps to liberalizing the liquor laws in Ontario with their announcement of allowing beer and wine in certain supermarkets. It's a baby step and even with that step our liquor laws will continue to be hopelessly archaic...but hopefully it will lead to more. Of course, I from what I understand Toronto has the power to do more on its own with the City of Toronto Act.

 

[Torontovibe]

I have traveled a lot and I can't remember a major city that has as many ugly, over-head wires on its main streets, as Toronto. Most places like San Francisco have it on small streets away from the core but what other major city has those on their major streets, right downtown? I think it sends out a really bad message. It seems to me that almost all of our politicians don't give a damn what this city looks like. Making money and getting re-elected is their only real agenda. Even regular Torontonians don't seem to give too much thought about what we look like or how poorly maintained our public realm is. I wish more people would demand better and vote for city councillors who actually care.

 

[TheKingEast]

I have traveled a lot and I can't remember a major city that has as many ugly, over-head wires on its main streets, as Toronto. Most places like San Francisco have it on small streets away from the core but what other major city has those on their major streets, right downtown? I think it sends out a really bad message. It seems to me that almost all of our politicians don't give a damn what this city looks like. Making money and getting re-elected is their only real agenda. Even regular Torontonians don't seem to give too much thought about what we look like or how poorly maintained our public realm is. I wish more people would demand better and vote for city councillors who actually care.

Well, according to some people here, New York, Paris, London, etc are no better. *sigh*

I'm still having a hard time understanding how people are falling over themselves to put Toronto over the above cities. I wonder how often people travel.

 

[pman]

I have traveled a lot and I can't remember a major city that has as many ugly, over-head wires on its main streets, as Toronto. Most places like San Francisco have it on small streets away from the core but what other major city has those on their major streets, right downtown? I think it sends out a really bad message. It seems to me that almost all of our politicians don't give a damn what this city looks like. Making money and getting re-elected is their only real agenda. Even regular Torontonians don't seem to give too much thought about what we look like or how poorly maintained our public realm is. I wish more people would demand better and vote for city councillors who actually care.

+1.

In addition to the visual crap overhead along with the supporting poles that often seem like salvage from a wrecking site, we add narrow mostly badly paved sidewalks, tiny dead trees in raised concrete planters from around 1973, a weird and disturbing mishmash of street light styles (the worst being kitschy retro types in many business improvement districts), and downtown parks where the quality of the landscape and hardscape is an embarrassing mess. I know, I know, we tell ourselves how urban and gritty it all is, but really this city's public realm is sad, shabby and ugly beyond belief.

 

[Johnny Au]

I agree that laws with regards to alcohol being restricted to the establishment selling it is a little too restrictive. Perhaps it can be loosened up during certain festivals (festivals popular with minors, such as the Santa Claus Parade and the Easter Parade, would not have alcohol outside of establishments that sell them, but the St. Patrick's Day Parade and sports championship parades would). Instead of alcohol being restricted to patios, it can be restricted to the entire festival zone instead, which would be much less restrictive. Parades would be a good festival to test this out, especially given that parades are not stationary and viewing parades from a patio is rather restrictive. Regardless, patrons are limited to two alcoholic drinks maximum and patrons are not allowed to bring alcoholic beverages from outside the festival zone.

Each entrance to the festival zone can have security as well.

Why festivals? Festivals attract people around the world and are a major source of income for Toronto.

São Paulo is no less a world-class city, given that all billboards (regardless of what is being advertised) are banned there. The cityscape is much improved when billboards are banned.

This is what I ponder as well:

Is Dubai a world class city? Dubai's alcohol laws can be much more restrictive than Ontario's but they are no less of a cultural hotspot than Toronto.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

+1.

In addition to the visual crap overhead along with the supporting poles that often seem like salvage from a wrecking site, we add narrow mostly badly paved sidewalks, tiny dead trees in raised concrete planters from around 1973, a weird and disturbing mishmash of street light styles (the worst being kitschy retro types in many business improvement districts), and downtown parks where the quality of the landscape and hardscape is an embarrassing mess. I know, I know, we tell ourselves how urban and gritty it all is, but really this city's public realm is sad, shabby and ugly beyond belief.

Welcome, guys! I'm glad you've been able to find this thread and try to ruin it like so many others with the petty whingeing about overhead wires. It was a breath of fresh air to debate Toronto's place in the metropolitan hierarchy without it, but c'est la vie. Welcome aboard!

Wisla -- I'd never thought of Sao Paolo. Thanks for that. Reminds me of another thread where some likened Toronto to Melbourne and sent me looking to see what it was like. Not certain if it goes on the 'places to see' list quite yet, but definitely worthy of more research.

 

[WislaHD]

Welcome, guys! I'm glad you've been able to find this thread and try to ruin it like so many others with the petty whingeing about overhead wires. It was a breath of fresh air to debate Toronto's place in the metropolitan hierarchy without it, but c'est la vie. Welcome aboard!

Wisla -- I'd never thought of Sao Paolo. Thanks for that. Reminds me of another thread where some likened Toronto to Melbourne and sent me looking to see what it was like. Not certain if it goes on the 'places to see' list quite yet, but definitely worthy of more research.

Heh, that might also have been me who made that Melbourne comparison. Though others suggested that Toronto is more like Sydney, I think that Melbourne's laneways and streetcar network and suburbs makes the comparison to Toronto more apt. But I digress as I haven't been to either city though they are on my bucket list.

As for Sao Paulo, as amazing of a city it is, I think from an urban planning and transportation perspective the nearby city of Curitiba is far more fascinating.