Seven ways to make Toronto a world-class city again

[Adjei]

I have traveled a lot and I can't remember a major city that has as many ugly, over-head wires on its main streets, as Toronto. Most places like San Francisco have it on small streets away from the core but what other major city has those on their major streets, right downtown? I think it sends out a really bad message. It seems to me that almost all of our politicians don't give a damn what this city looks like. Making money and getting re-elected is their only real agenda. Even regular Torontonians don't seem to give too much thought about what we look like or how poorly maintained our public realm is. I wish more people would demand better and vote for city councillors who actually care.

The politicians cater to what the public wants. If the public cared about our ugly overhead wires and our public realm, you would be damn sure it would get fixed or at least become an issue to debate. Look at when there was talk of burying the hydro wires after the ice storm, as soon as Toronto Hydro brought up the costs, it was quickly forgotten about. We always go for the cheapest without a thought for any aesthetic value.

 

[M.R.Victor]

The focus on aesthetics (urban realm, overhead wires) in the context of global city hierarchy is about as relevant as a discussion around whether Angela Merkel did or did not have tidy fingernails at the U.N. Summit in 2014. Sure, you can make a big deal out of it, but that sort of stuff is better left for the tabloids and their readership to fuss over.

 

[Tewder]

Welcome, guys! I'm glad you've been able to find this thread and try to ruin it like so many others with the petty whingeing about overhead wires. It was a breath of fresh air to debate Toronto's place in the metropolitan hierarchy without it, but c'est la vie. Welcome aboard!

Thanks for the insightful post. I'm not even being sarcastic. You've weighed in at just about the right time, just when i figured some hoser would get defensive of Toronto's mess. So Welcome RRR!

Thankfully some posters here care about the public realm, see it possibly as a symptom of some deeper and wider issues. Whether it reflects in any real way on Toronto's place in some so-called metropolitan hierarchy is up for debate, but it's a useful one to have and a valid one. All the while we are mentioning London, Paris and Rome when talking about alpha cities it is beyond delusional (not to mention parochial) to dismiss excellence within the public realm. Want to sit round and pat yourself on the back about how great Toronto is? Go get some fresh air somewhere else!

 

[WislaHD]

Is Dubai a world class city? Dubai's alcohol laws can be much more restrictive than Ontario's but they are no less of a cultural hotspot than Toronto.

That's a tough one. It is definitely the business and financial capital of that region of the globe. I wouldn't say it is a cultural hotspot though?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Just stop.

Thanks for the insightful post. I'm not even being sarcastic. You've weighed in at just about the right time, just when i figured some hoser would get defensive of Toronto's mess. So Welcome RRR!

Thankfully some posters here care about the public realm, see it possibly as a symptom of some deeper and wider issues. Whether it reflects in any real way on Toronto's place in some so-called metropolitan hierarchy is up for debate, but it's a useful one to have and a valid one. All the while we are mentioning London, Paris and Rome when talking about alpha cities it is beyond delusional (not to mention parochial) to dismiss excellence within the public realm. Want to sit round and pat yourself on the back about how great Toronto is? Go get some fresh air somewhere else!

Tewder, lack of, or too many to bear, overhead wires is neither a symptom of deeper issues nor anything else except the obsession of certain members of this forum. Toronto is going to continue to have overhead wires in the Old City permanently, due to our commitment to streetcars and the fact that changing them is a ridiculous expense unless they become dysfunctional for some reason or a neighbourhood is being razed.

To continually bring up overhead wires as a sign of Toronto's 'hick' status, or Toronto's non-abilty to compete in the world league of cities is nonsensical and, quite frankly, navel-gazing. Those that do so are saying, "I don't like overhead wires, so Toronto cannot ever aspire to greatness." Overhead wires are slightly less important than that.

Might get worse for y'all, T. Looks like my sojourn in Barbados is being cut short by my employer and I'll be back in Toronto. That'll probably just make me MORE Toronto-boosting and give me more reason to post!

 

[Cooper]

Tewder, lack of, or too many to bear, overhead wires is neither a symptom of deeper issues nor anything else except the obsession of certain members of this forum. Toronto is going to continue to have overhead wires in the Old City permanently, due to our commitment to streetcars and the fact that changing them is a ridiculous expense unless they become dysfunctional for some reason or a neighbourhood is being razed.

To continually bring up overhead wires as a sign of Toronto's 'hick' status, or Toronto's non-abilty to compete in the world league of cities is nonsensical and, quite frankly, navel-gazing. Those that do so are saying, "I don't like overhead wires, so Toronto cannot ever aspire to greatness." Overhead wires are slightly less important than that.

Might get worse for y'all, T. Looks like my sojourn in Barbados is being cut short by my employer and I'll be back in Toronto. That'll probably just make me MORE Toronto-boosting and give me more reason to post!

FWIW, I kind of like the overhead wires. Toronto has a dowdy charm that I find quite appealing. I certainly like it more than the concrete and glass that seems to dominate current construction. Those windows are magnets are for dust and grit. Doesn't take long before they start looking shabby, and not in a cool retro way. Also when everybody has their theirs blinds at different levels of open or shut, the buildings start to look like a hockey player's teeth. [/pot stirring]

 

[WislaHD]

I was at a talk Joe Berridge (who is a huge Toronto fan) gave where he posed this question. How many of you think Toronto is a World Class City?

As a skeptic and someone who has been to a fair share of global cities I obviously said no. However, I would have to say that Mr. Berridge convinced me to consider it. It's not that Toronto is amazing, it's just that it is overall well-rounded.

Watch the video here and make up your own mind

https://vimeo.com/119205055

Having watched this video, it does give me a new perspective on our city.

It is shocking that we are able to be such a globally influential city while maintaining such a high standard of living and (relatively speaking compared to other 'world class' cities) low cost of life. Like he says in the video, what other 'world class' city would you send your children to public school if you were a person of means?

We might not be #1 in any one category of ranking cities, but we score consistently high in most if not all of them. Other cities, even world class ones, may be seriously lacking in several areas, but not Toronto, we are high performers in every field.

 

[MisterF]

Tewder, lack of, or too many to bear, overhead wires is neither a symptom of deeper issues nor anything else except the obsession of certain members of this forum. Toronto is going to continue to have overhead wires in the Old City permanently, due to our commitment to streetcars and the fact that changing them is a ridiculous expense unless they become dysfunctional for some reason or a neighbourhood is being razed.

As I've said before, streetcars are irrelevant to the complaints of overhead wires. Nobody's complaining about the wires necessary to run streetcars. We're complaining about the power lines that run along most of our main streets. The latter are unnecessary and have nothing to do with streetcars - they also exist on streets without streetcars like Ossington (on both sides no less). Cities like the aforementioned Amsterdam manage to run streetcars without the overhead clutter found in Toronto. Same with Vancouver and its trolley buses.

Pretty much the entire world outside Ontario thinks it's worth it to bury power lines on major urban streets, including cities much poorer than us. The fact that Toronto considers it a "ridiculous expense" is, IMO, a symptom of deeper issues in this city.

Welcome, guys! I'm glad you've been able to find this thread and try to ruin it like so many others with the petty whingeing about overhead wires. It was a breath of fresh air to debate Toronto's place in the metropolitan hierarchy without it, but c'est la vie. Welcome aboard!

In any conversation where complaints about this city come up, this kind of thing is going to be discussed. And as long as Toronto continues to transmit electricity in such an appalling way, people are going to complain about it. It's a perfectly valid complaint.

FWIW, I kind of like the overhead wires. Toronto has a dowdy charm that I find quite appealing. I certainly like it more than the concrete and glass that seems to dominate current construction. Those windows are magnets are for dust and grit. Doesn't take long before they start looking shabby, and not in a cool retro way. Also when everybody has their theirs blinds at different levels of open or shut, the buildings start to look like a hockey player's teeth. [/pot stirring]

Out of curiosity, do you find cities like London or Amsterdam less cool and charming than the parts of Toronto with overhead wires? Would this be less cool if it looked like this?

By the way, a quality public realm has nothing whatsoever to do with current architectural trends ("steel and glass") or gentrification.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

As I've said before, streetcars are irrelevant to the complaints of overhead wires. Nobody's complaining about the wires necessary to run streetcars. We're complaining about the power lines that run along most of our main streets. The latter are unnecessary and have nothing to do with streetcars - they also exist on streets without streetcars like Ossington (on both sides no less). Cities like the aforementioned Amsterdam manage to run streetcars without the overhead clutter found in Toronto. Same with Vancouver and its trolley buses.

Pretty much the entire world outside Ontario thinks it's worth it to bury power lines on major urban streets, including cities much poorer than us. The fact that Toronto considers it a "ridiculous expense" is, IMO, a symptom of deeper issues in this city.


In any conversation where complaints about this city come up, this kind of thing is going to be discussed. And as long as Toronto continues to transmit electricity in such an appalling way, people are going to complain about it. It's a perfectly valid complaint.


Out of curiosity, do you find cities like London or Amsterdam less cool and charming than the parts of Toronto with overhead wires? Would this be less cool if it looked like this?

By the way, a quality public realm has nothing whatsoever to do with current architectural trends ("steel and glass") or gentrification.

One last try: how we transmit electricity is so far down the list of concerns for a city as to be meaningless. Obsess as you wish, I will let my eyes glaze over and move on, but it's beyond silly.

But, yeah, distinguish between 'overhead lines i will accept' and 'overhead lines which we should spend $100s of millions removing because i feel they are a blight on humanity.' Whatever.

I admit defeat. I will stop trying to get people to stop complaining about overhead wires on every bloody thread on UT.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Out of curiosity, do you find cities like London or Amsterdam less cool and charming than the parts of Toronto with overhead wires? Would this be less cool if it looked like this?

By the way, a quality public realm has nothing whatsoever to do with current architectural trends ("steel and glass") or gentrification.

Bwahahahaha... Sorry, have to add a last comment after saying I'd stop, but I clicked through to your pix. You seriously think that SUPPORTS your argument? Really? Awesome!

 

[Admiral Beez]

Overhead wires should be as accepted as overhead sewers or water pipes.

I say put it all underground.

 

[pman]

As I've said before, streetcars are irrelevant to the complaints of overhead wires. Nobody's complaining about the wires necessary to run streetcars. We're complaining about the power lines that run along most of our main streets. The latter are unnecessary and have nothing to do with streetcars - they also exist on streets without streetcars like Ossington (on both sides no less). Cities like the aforementioned Amsterdam manage to run streetcars without the overhead clutter found in Toronto. Same with Vancouver and its trolley buses.

Pretty much the entire world outside Ontario thinks it's worth it to bury power lines on major urban streets, including cities much poorer than us. The fact that Toronto considers it a "ridiculous expense" is, IMO, a symptom of deeper issues in this city.


In any conversation where complaints about this city come up, this kind of thing is going to be discussed. And as long as Toronto continues to transmit electricity in such an appalling way, people are going to complain about it. It's a perfectly valid complaint.


Out of curiosity, do you find cities like London or Amsterdam less cool and charming than the parts of Toronto with overhead wires? Would this be less cool if it looked like this?

By the way, a quality public realm has nothing whatsoever to do with current architectural trends ("steel and glass") or gentrification.

Great images showing how London gets its public realm right and Toronto doesn't have a clue. For the Toronto boosters on this thread, it's not just the frontier-town wires that are so revolting, it's also our relatively narrow sidewalks and shitty paving. And the Toronto image in the post wasn't the worst we can do by a long shot.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Glad we have our priorities straight. We have homeless people sleeping in the streets, but, f*ck me, those damn wires need to go. We have a crumbling overhead highway (if we're going to be all about ugly overhead infrastructure) that's actually falling apart on people, but those wires are sooooo drab.

Having overhead wires doesn't preclude a city from being world-class (whatever the hell that means).

Wait, maybe it does....as I clearly don't know what world-class is supposed to describe.
I haven't traveled as extensively as some people, but I've been around and Toronto is one of the very few places I would consider living. Even with overhead wires, blasphemer that I am.
That makes it world-class in my books.

 

[wopchop]

I heard we are keeping them around for the upcoming flooding of the world ...

 

[MisterF]

One last try: how we transmit electricity is so far down the list of concerns for a city as to be meaningless. Obsess as you wish, I will let my eyes glaze over and move on, but it's beyond silly.

But, yeah, distinguish between 'overhead lines i will accept' and 'overhead lines which we should spend $100s of millions removing because i feel they are a blight on humanity.' Whatever.

I admit defeat. I will stop trying to get people to stop complaining about overhead wires on every bloody thread on UT.

To take your argument to its logical conclusion, all aesthetics in the public realm are such a low priority as to be meaningless. The Nathan Phillips Square project is a waste of money. We should stop funding the AGO and ROM. Sidewalks should never be paved with unit pavers or brick. The waterfront revitalization should be cancelled. I could go on but I think my point is made - great cities don't consider these kinds of things meaningless.

As for streetcar wires, the difference between the only-what's-necessary (ie. streetcar wires only) approach in a city like Amsterdam and the everything-in-the-sky approach in Toronto is like night and day. The problem isn't the relatively minimal streetcar wires, it's everything else.

Bwahahahaha... Sorry, have to add a last comment after saying I'd stop, but I clicked through to your pix. You seriously think that SUPPORTS your argument? Really? Awesome!

Granted, Camden is more Queen West than it is Kensington, but which neighbourhood comparison would you prefer? Are you more a fan of Shoreditch, or Peckham maybe? Or perhaps you'd prefer Williamsburg in New York. Pretty much any neighbourhood you choose would have one thing in common - no overhead power lines on the main streets. Or are you saying that London and New York have no neighbourhoods that can compare to Kensington or Parkdale or Leslieville?

Glad we have our priorities straight. We have homeless people sleeping in the streets, but, f*ck me, those damn wires need to go. We have a crumbling overhead highway (if we're going to be all about ugly overhead infrastructure) that's actually falling apart on people, but those wires are sooooo drab.

Having overhead wires doesn't preclude a city from being world-class (whatever the hell that means).

Wait, maybe it does....as I clearly don't know what world-class is supposed to describe.
I haven't traveled as extensively as some people, but I've been around and Toronto is one of the very few places I would consider living. Even with overhead wires, blasphemer that I am.
That makes it world-class in my books.

I'm trying to figure out what you're arguing here. Are you saying that if Toronto spent some money to bury its power lines it would have more homeless people and the Gardiner would be in even worse shape? Or that our lack of attention to aesthetics has given us a less severe homeless problem than other cities? Do other cities have more problems with infrastructure crumbling because they bury their power lines?