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Seven ways to make Toronto a world-class city again

To take your argument to its logical conclusion, all aesthetics in the public realm are such a low priority as to be meaningless. The Nathan Phillips Square project is a waste of money. We should stop funding the AGO and ROM. Sidewalks should never be paved with unit pavers or brick. The waterfront revitalization should be cancelled. I could go on but I think my point is made - great cities don't consider these kinds of things meaningless.

I was gonna say the exact same thing to MTown. Some people can't seem to comprehend the idea that it's possible to have nice things and still have a liveable city. There's enough money around to do all that if we stop keeping taxes so low and stop wasting money on political subways, but noooo how dare we have pink umbrellas when there's a homelessness problem in this city.


Granted, Camden is more Queen West than it is Kensington, but which neighbourhood comparison would you prefer? Are you more a fan of Shoreditch, or Peckham maybe? Or perhaps you'd prefer Williamsburg in New York. Pretty much any neighbourhood you choose would have one thing in common - no overhead power lines on the main streets. Or are you saying that London and New York have no neighbourhoods that can compare to Kensington or Parkdale or Leslieville?

NY and London are so world class that they can't compare to Toronto in any way. Toronto is a damn good place to live and that's all that matters, therefore we have nothing to learn from those cities. At least that's what some people seem to be arguing here.
 
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To take your argument to its logical conclusion, all aesthetics in the public realm are such a low priority as to be meaningless. The Nathan Phillips Square project is a waste of money. We should stop funding the AGO and ROM. Sidewalks should never be paved with unit pavers or brick. The waterfront revitalization should be cancelled. I could go on but I think my point is made - great cities don't consider these kinds of things meaningless.

Nice reductio ad absurdum argument. I'm a huge fan of WT's work, and I had season's passes to the AGO and ROM when I lived in Toronto. I specifically was railing against UT posters who continually clutter decent threads with ineffectual and nonsensical complains about Toronto's overhead wires. I, for one, think a modest rise in property taxes to fund WT again and pay for more transit would be a great thing.
 
The self-hating Torontonian has become such a cliche. We want it all and more. A Disneyland version of a functioning, working city, massive injections of new money for public transit including two or three new subway lines, state-of-the art sewer and water projects, entire neighbourhoods designated heritage and Pritzker winning architecture dotting the skyline, millenium parks and hundred-year-old maples lining sun dappled high streets, the homeless in tuxedos, somehow all the happy people living in a perfectly engineered city... throw out a trillion dollars on all this, and unfortunately, we'd still find a way to want more.

Makes you wonder where the nation-wide Canadian perception of Toronto being smug, egotistic and conceited comes from. :confused:
 
Tewder, lack of, or too many to bear, overhead wires is neither a symptom of deeper issues nor anything else except the obsession of certain members of this forum. Toronto is going to continue to have overhead wires in the Old City permanently, due to our commitment to streetcars and the fact that changing them is a ridiculous expense unless they become dysfunctional for some reason or a neighbourhood is being razed.

Misrepresenting and downplaying the issue (i.e. your false statement that all wires are streetcar wires, which you know is not true) or refusing to even consider that a very prominent element of the public realm might be part of a bigger picture strikes me as disingenuous.


To continually bring up overhead wires as a sign of Toronto's 'hick' status, or Toronto's non-abilty to compete in the world league of cities is nonsensical and, quite frankly, navel-gazing. Those that do so are saying, "I don't like overhead wires, so Toronto cannot ever aspire to greatness." Overhead wires are slightly less important than that.


Come on, it's not just the wires. The reference is metonymic now. It's the image that has come to stand in for all that is corrupt and dysfunctional with the physical and aesthetic state of this city. Now, you may feel the city's just beautiful and functional as is but to convince us that it's alpha you're going to need a much better argument than 'anyone who disagrees with me is a whiner'.

... but my mission is to bring you on board, not alienate you. The theory is that the overhead wires are symptomatic of an issue that runs wider and deeper with respect to the public realm. Let's look at the evidence:

- Not just overhead wires (that in most North American and European cities - including those with streetcars/LRT etc - are buried, in central areas at least)... but the disfigured, listing and staple-covered wooden poles they're attached to. This is not just unsightly but dysfunctional, they take up precious space on Toronto's narrow, cluttered sidewalks and the exposed wires make them more vulnerable to power outages. There are reasons why other cities bury them!

- Let's not just look up however... look down at the cracked, gum-stained and asphalt-patched sidewalks those listing poles and wires are rooted in. Not just along out-of-the way side streets but along every single major downtown thoroughfare (with the exception of the privately funded upgrade of Bloor and the recently renovated Market Street). Once again, the state of our sidewalks is both unsightly and dysfunctional. In a growing city with notoriously narrow sidewalks that are covered with snow half the year we need a pedestrian infrastructure that is accommodating. This is the very least we should expect, though to be aiming for alpha we need streets that are beautiful and inviting too (Bloor and Market Street are good examples of what we can achieve).

- Now let's look at where these broken streets lead us... Look at the broken fountains that have been dried up for years (decades in some cases), the dead trees, the unmaintained parks that strive to be little more than tracts of patched grass, and the almost complete lack of beautification (cluttered and junky corners/intersections, mismatched street furniture, utilitarian light poles, lack of flowers and plantings). I could go on. Once again, unsightly and dysfunctional.

- As for the rest of the city infrastructure? Is the decrepit and ill-maintained condition of the above really all that markedly different from what we see with the roads, bridges and highways? The interminable road construction and gridlock? The transit quagmire? The endless mess at NPS, our very seat of civic stewardship (oh the irony)? The ad-hoc and piecemeal approach to city development that's largely been abandoned to private development?

It's more than just the wires dude.


Glad we have our priorities straight. We have homeless people sleeping in the streets, but, f*ck me, those damn wires need to go.

The state of the public realm rises from a chasm where public apathy intersects with politics:

The political left view public spending on anything other than welfare as wasteful. The Fordian right view committing resources to anything other than the relief of taxation as gravy. The verbiage is different, the motivations are different but the outcome is the same.

With an apathetic public and in the absence of political motivation or any strong interest groups (the PanAm games and Waterfront Toronto have provided some leverage) we are left with an ugly and dysfunctional city.

This is not to deny that Toronto doesn't have some lovely graces (lake, ravines, heritage architecture) or to insist that we haven't achieved some randomly successful public spaces here and there (even a broken clock is right twice a day, after all)... but to acknowledge that there is a malaise in Toronto we shouldn't ignore, that we are a long way from pursuing anything that resembles a 'London/Paris/New York alpha city' approach to urbanism. It's just my take on it but I'm willing to consider differently...
 
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While public realm is important, and that there is malaise in the current approach, let's not pretend it is the bread and butter of "alpha city" - it is ultimately it is the economic, social, knowledge and political prowess that determines whether a city is alpha, not how pretty it looks. In fact one can argue that these problems arose precisely because the city is increasingly large, dense and economically active. That's what's straining our infrastructure and make us reconsider how our public realm affects our standing in the world. Not the other way around.

As someone once said when I was in Rochester awhile ago - their rush hour only lasts 10 minutes. Enough said.

AoD
 
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One way for Toronto to make Toronto a world class city again? Stop navelgazing at itself long enough to contemplate whether or not it is a world class city or not.

Bonus round: don't use the term world class city. Ever.
 
Nope. It's beyond trivial. I don't even think or notice overhead wires to any degree, apart from maybe streetcar wires. And that's not really what we're talking about here.
 
Nope. It's beyond trivial. I don't even think or notice overhead wires to any degree, apart from maybe streetcar wires. And that's not really what we're talking about here.

How can you not notice the non-streetcar wires? Like City TV they're everywhere. The wires poles are a big part of why the negative posters on this site find the notion of "Toronto" and "world class" in the same sentence a joke, but they're not the only factor. I think what the non-world-class group is trying to say, as Tewder summarized so well a couple posts ago, is that our entire public realm is a mess. A city as depressingly shabby and pig-ugly as Toronto probably shouldn't compare itself to cities like London, Paris or NYC. Or for that matter, Boston, Melbourne, Barcelona or Sydney. True, as AoD pointed out, we're more vibrant than Rochester. I'd even throw Buffalo, Buffalo, Hamilton, Cleveland, Detroit, Utica, Brantford and Syracuse into that mix. I understand Toronto has other problems than the quality of the design, construction and maintenance of our public realm, and that most Torontonians simply don't care or notice what the city looks like. Some even seem to like it. But can we at least admit that people in global alpha and beta cities do care about this stuff, have a vastly different vision of what a proper city looks like than we do, and spend a lot of time, effort and money to create handsome and sometimes amazing public spaces.
 
Nope. It's beyond trivial. I don't even think or notice overhead wires to any degree, apart from maybe streetcar wires. And that's not really what we're talking about here.

You don't notice the wood poles with stables all over our main streets?
 
How can you not notice the non-streetcar wires? Like City TV they're everywhere. The wires poles are a big part of why the negative posters on this site find the notion of "Toronto" and "world class" in the same sentence a joke, but they're not the only factor. I think what the non-world-class group is trying to say, as Tewder summarized so well a couple posts ago, is that our entire public realm is a mess. A city as depressingly shabby and pig-ugly as Toronto probably shouldn't compare itself to cities like London, Paris or NYC. Or for that matter, Boston, Melbourne, Barcelona or Sydney. True, as AoD pointed out, we're more vibrant than Rochester. I'd even throw Buffalo, Buffalo, Hamilton, Cleveland, Detroit, Utica, Brantford and Syracuse into that mix. I understand Toronto has other problems than the quality of the design, construction and maintenance of our public realm, and that most Torontonians simply don't care or notice what the city looks like. Some even seem to like it. But can we at least admit that people in global alpha and beta cities do care about this stuff, have a vastly different vision of what a proper city looks like than we do, and spend a lot of time, effort and money to create handsome and sometimes amazing public spaces.

Toronto is just a much bigger version of say, St. Thomas, which has pretty much the exact same shabby public realm as Toronto. Our civic politicians have the same small-town mindset. "We can't be spending frivolous tax dollars on the public realm. We must pinch every penny and our only business is making sure the garbage is picked up on time and the pot holes are filled." Except that in the case of St. Thomas, it's because industry left town and there just aren't the dollars to spend, an excuse Toronto politicians cannot use as a crutch to be cheap. Without getting into the overhead wires debate, there are many other aspects of the public realm that can be improved that would go a long way to making the city just look better.

Another example are the old decorative box frames at the base of the street light poles on University that used to have the City coat of arms on them. How many are left, and of those that are, how many are damaged or have pieces missing? It's obvious that no one cares to allocate any money to maintain these sort of little things, that when added together, do make the public realm look like crap because of the neglect.
 
You don't notice the wood poles with stables all over our main streets?

Not just the wood poles, but even the lighting poles are a rusty mess with stables all over it. On some street I even find abandoned poles left to decay right next to newly installed polls.
 
I'll start with a simple question: what are your favorite things about living in a world-class city?

To start off and more than anything else, a great public transit system, wait, we don't have it.
We are more like a North America-class city.

For me, it's the ability to stroll in shorts and flip-flops through Kensington in the morning and attend a suit-and-tie event in the evening.

Off the top of my head, I can think 20 cities where you can do that. Kensington sort of markets literally exist everywhere in the world. Can we stop talk as if it were some sort of unique and exciting experience?
 
I think you guys are missing the point.

London is by far an uglier city than Barcelona, yet it is also far more powerful, economically and politically. Toronto is uglier than Montreal, yet also far more powerful and influential.

Bucharest has no overhead wires in the historical core while Toronto does. So what? The correlation between public realm and what establishes a city as world-class is somewhere close to nil.
 
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