September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[Kamuix]

I'm not saying a plane didn't hit the towers or saying that the towers didn't fall or anything weird like that. I'm saying the government was involved and at least had known about what was coming before it came. Are you a researcher with or without an open mind? Do you purposely try and find things to convince yourself that conspiracy theories are crazy? Obviously your answer will probably be no. People do narrow minded things without noticing. People who are narrow minded don't say they are and say they don't like open minded people, It doesn't work like that. Did you ever think to yourself "maybe I should give these conspiracies a change"? Probably not. People who have been condition into society in a strong enough way closes their minds to anything that's not currently socially acceptable. From the beginning when you hear about these theories it always seems crazy, but if instead of giving it a chance, if you just take a negative view on it, find things to convince yourself it's crazy(which is easy to do since it's socially unpopular and post people are also conditioned, therefor there's a lot of hate against it promoted by the establishment) Then what happens is you build up a hate for "Conspiracy Theorists" which then it becomes harder and harder to consider the possibility.

This type of psychological thinking goes a long with a lot of different things in society. Marijuana is a perfect example, a drug much safer and less addictive then Tobacco and Alcohol yet society will tell you it's worse and to judge people who use it(maybe 75% of the time). This is even worse with other drugs like Mushrooms, Ketamine, MDMA(extacy), Mescaline, LSD, Opiates, which are all safer then Alcohol.. Surprising? Not if you actually do the research instead of going by what society tells you. Alcohol is widely acceptable you see it everywhere in every class. And notice that we're always reminded of alcohols dangers yet no matter what gets said about it's dangers it's acceptability in society stays the same. But going to the big bad illegal drugs that the media/establishment/education system etc. demonizes constantly, notice how everything bad about an illegal drug will be used to justify it being illegal and to justify judging people who use it etc. But when something bad gets mentioned about Alcohol it's not used in the same way.. notice that? This is societies conditioning in a much more see-able way.

You kind of have to get passed the way society tells you to think before you can look at this in a balanced way. Building 7 wasn't even hit by a place yet it fell perfectly straight down in seven seconds. There was tons of video cameras facing the pentagon when it was hit. they were immediately confiscated and then there was(and still is) a whole bunch of questions being asked about what really did hit the pentagon. one 5 frame video was released that didn't show what hit the pentagon. To prove that plane hit the building all they would have to do was release one of those videos.. Yet they didn't. These are two of the biggest examples of what could easily make a reasonable person skeptical. I know Grissie is going to post quoting this saying "That's not evidence" like he always does. But he uses that to justify avoiding the questions I ask him and a way to convince himself that I'm just a crazy delirious conspiracy theorists. We've gone far past that and I've countered him on it many times but he's conditioned and far too gone to wake up to reality.

The point is the problem isn't that i don't show enough evidence, that's a front you guys use to reject everything I say at once. The problem is you guys are conditioned into societies beliefs and until you get passed that and open your mind to other possibilities.

 

[PinkLucy]

Did you ever think to yourself "maybe I should give these conspiracies a change"? Probably not.

But I did give them a chance and found their logic faulty and research non-existant at worst and contrived at best. I don't believe everything I hear, which is why I research and then form my own opinions.

You have assumed that people trust the government 100%. None of us has ever made that claim, yet you continue to accuse us of blind faith in government.

You say we reject what you say without checking it out. Not true or we wouldn't have looked at the links and then rejected what they said. We gave it a chance. It doesn't add up.

And Gristle is right. What you are saying, about the pentagon, about building 7, is NOT evidence. Evidence is factual PROOF. You haven't provided that in any way, shape or form.

 

[Kamuix]

I'm on offering that as proof. I even said specifically that i'm not offering it as proof. And I don't beleive you could of gave it much of a chance. So instead of addressing why the government acts so suspicious around those theories why you attack me over it not being proof? I wasn't offering it as proof. I was just using it as an some of the key examples. Keep beleiving that out government Isn't corrupt, go ahead. You claim to be a researcher who says the research doesn't add up? what a load of BS. You could not possibly have done good research.

Watch Loose change it cover a lot of things you should know.

 

[PinkLucy]

Again, I repeat. I never once said that I don't think there is corruption in government. Nor did anyone else. That does not, however, mean that Sept. 11 was a government conspiracy.

 

[Kamuix]

I know but there's a lot more out there i think you should look at before deciding.

 

[ganjavih]

Kamuix, although I asked, you did not show any evidence that fluoride and aspartame are toxic to humans... fine. Can you at least explain what you mean by your assertion that mushrooms, ketamine, ecstacy, mescaline, LSD, and opiates are safer than alcohol? Safer in what way?

 

[Kamuix]

Well I'm not really sure what kind of evidence you want but i urge you to Google it and do some research on artificial sweeteners and Fluoride before believing that it's safe. And yes they're less toxic to the body and cause much less damage especially the psychedelics. Most are harder to overdose on with an exception of the heavier opiates like Morphine & Heroin perhaps which are also more addictive, yet less toxic to the body. Ethanol is an Alcohol. Alcohols tend to be toxic. The point is alcohol is up there with the hard drugs. Drugs like Marijuana, Codeine, Kratom, Mushrooms, LSA, Mescaline, Ketamine, Caffeine, Theobromine etc. are all on the safer side of drugs. And yes safer then things like Aspartame by far as I strongly believe.

Hope that answered your question

 

[gristle]

I know Grissie is going to post quoting this saying "That's not evidence" like he always does. But he uses that to justify avoiding the questions I ask him and a way to convince himself that I'm just a crazy delirious conspiracy theorists. We've gone far past that and I've countered him on it many times but he's conditioned and far too gone to wake up to reality.

Incorrect Kamuix. As has been repeated over and over to you, you must provide verifiable evidence to back up your claims. Lets be clear, you are the one who is making the assertions. You are being asked to show actual proof that is scientific, can be examined and even refuted by testing for logic and reason. You have offered no proof and still refuse to do so. Instead, you hide behind lame excuses that there is something wrong with people who don't automatically respond positively to your drivel. Either provide this category of quality evidence or finally admit that you have nothing at all and that your claims are empty.

I'm saying the government was involved and at least had known about what was coming before it came. Are you a researcher with or without an open mind?

Show clear and verifiable evidence that the government was involved. Either you start producing this evidence or simply admit that your mind is closed and that you have nothing to offer other than a vague set of unsubstantiated beliefs and personal paranoia - which is hardly indicative of an open mind.

People who have been condition into society in a strong enough way closes their minds to anything that's not currently socially acceptable.

This is just a cheap excuse an nothing more. It's clear that you harbour some sort of laughable superiority complex. Your pompous stance that your beliefs are superior to actual evidence, and your condescending attitude that everyone else is under the spell of some vague and unexplained form of conditioning reveals the emptiness of your position.

You kind of have to get passed the way society tells you to think before you can look at this in a balanced way.

You have to get over yourself and start looking at the empty bag of swill you are offering.

You kind of have to get passed the way society tells you to think before you can look at this in a balanced way. Building 7 wasn't even hit by a place yet it fell perfectly straight down in seven seconds. There was tons of video cameras facing the pentagon when it was hit. they were immediately confiscated and then there was(and still is) a whole bunch of questions being asked about what really did hit the pentagon. one 5 frame video was released that didn't show what hit the pentagon. To prove that plane hit the building all they would have to do was release one of those videos.. Yet they didn't. These are two of the biggest examples of what could easily make a reasonable person skeptical. I know Grissie is going to post quoting this saying "That's not evidence" like he always does.

You bet Kamuix: provide the evidence (verifiable evidence, not the ranting of a retired wrestler).

Oh, and do tell us all what exactly was in all the video that was confiscated.

We've gone far past that and I've countered him on it many times but he's conditioned and far too gone to wake up to reality.

Kamuix, we have not ventured any further than your failure to provide valid evidence to support your claims. Everyone is well aware that you continuously hide behind suggestions that everyone who finds your musing as being empty have been duped by some nefarious societal conditioning, are supposedly too closed-minded to be able to have access to your higher form of consciousness, and are simply avoiding the truth that you have special knowledge that precludes the pesky necessity for clear and logical explanation or valid evidence.

Get over yourself and do what you have been asked over and over again: provide verifiable evidence along with a clear and sufficient explanation regarding what you suggest took place. Start producing it already and quit hiding behind your sad little evasions.

The point is the problem isn't that i don't show enough evidence, that's a front you guys use to reject everything I say at once. The problem is you guys are conditioned into societies beliefs and until you get passed that and open your mind to other possibilities.

The Jesus complex, once again.

What a truly pathetic excuse.

Spare us the religious views on your foggy opinions. Provide the evidence to support your conspiracy claims, and produce a verifiable account of what you assert took place. No more of this vague "it's a conspiracy" bull, start furnishing actual details and substance.

You've made a broad claim; start backing it up. I'm challenging you to do so.

 

[Kamuix]

Ah common Grissie you did the same thing again. It's not even comparable to religion. I've backed it up. Remember Loose Change Grissie? WATCH IT! Not to mention the tons of other links I've showed you.. Oh but they don't count you want the government to tell you what happened.

It's not an excuse Grissie you're on the Grid. Going along with the system if you will. In with society. Kamuix reached his hands out... but couldn't grab Grissie's hands, he's too far .

You have too much faith in government.

 

[ganjavih]

And yes safer then things like Aspartame by far as I strongly believe.

Well, that's the point, this is something you believe. That's fine, people can believe whatever they want. Just don't try to pass it off as truth, evidence, or scientific knowledge.

Hope that answered your question

Not really. I asked for evidence, eg. scientific texts, research papers. Incidentally, I agree with you that society underestimates the damaging effect of chronic alcohol use, but I also believe that marijuana is not a "safe" drug, especially with heavy use. I don't believe, however that I should be more concerned about the fluoride in our drinking water, than the effects that hallucinogens or opioids on my brain.

 

[Kamuix]

Well I guarantee you that Aspartame and Fluoride are more damaging then marijuana. From the research I've done on both, i found more than enough to know that. The only reason i said I believe is because i knew someone would attack me for not showing proof. But then again I gave you a bunch of links. It's unfair of you to demand the kind of evidence you do but yet you believe what the establishment tells you. The internet is free and not government controlled, use it! Do some research on both of those, and be skeptical of what gets told to you by things that are influenced by possible corruption.

The reason i made that point about society and Alcohol is because it shows that societies point of view isn't always based on facts(In my point of view, rarely is). Marijuana is quite harmless but it won't be looked at that way until it gets legalized and becomes accepted by society.

Psychedelics and opiates have never shown to be in any way toxic or damaging to the brain. Opiates are known for causing addiction and Psychedelics are not known for anything bad but are known for being beneficial. The Psychedelics are the safest of the drugs(ex. Mushrooms, Mescaline, LSA etc.). That should be well known but obviously corruption based society fails once again.

 

[nfitz]

I'm saying the government was involved and at least had known about what was coming before it came.

Then you sir, are a nutter! Where do we send the tin-foil hat to?

That has to be the most second outrageous claim I have ever read on this forum (the claim that the subway stations can be made safer by putting in a long row of patio doors from Home Depot is hard to beat ...).

 

[PinkLucy]

I agree nfitz; Sharon and Kamuix provide me with my daily quotient of nutter. Maybe they should get together and swap conspiracy theories.

 

[gristle]

Ah common Grissie you did the same thing again. It's not even comparable to religion. I've backed it up. Remember Loose Change Grissie? WATCH IT! Not to mention the tons of other links I've showed you.

You've shown no evidence whatsoever - not one ounce. Citing Loose Change is not research, and it contains nothing in terms of evidence. The links you have posted are not evidence and offer nothing more than you do: declarations of conspiracies without proof, allusions to vague questions, and fantasy-making. None of these links offer clear evidence or a consistent chronicle that can be examined, proven, verified or refuted. Your open and constant adherence to your conspiracy beliefs without a shred of anything to support that position indicates that you do not have an open mind and operate on unproven assumption and unsupported assertions. You offer nothing because you have nothing.

It's not an excuse Grissie you're on the Grid. Going along with the system if you will. In with society. Kamuix reached his hands out... but couldn't grab Grissie's hands, he's too far

Your reliance on these infantile deflections is unfortunate, but obviously that is the only way you know how to operate. It's also obvious that you do so because you are cornered and trapped. You can't back up your assertions with evidence, so you act like a child and blame everyone else for what ultimately are your failings to prove your case and to think critically.

You have too much faith in government.

Read through this thread Kamuix. Find where I state an overt "faith" for any specific government position. Quote it here.

Again, you will fail miserably because your assumptions are empty.

What I have done throughout this thread is to challenge you to support your claims with verifiable evidence, and to provide a clear and logical exposition of what you assert lead up to and took place on September 11, 2001. You have failed thoroughly to rise to that challenge. You have failed to clarify the details of your position and failed to support it with proof. More simply, you have failed.

 

[Kamuix]

Bottom line, you refuse to answer my questions. You also have no proof of the side you're conditioned by and defend. I've shown tons of information. You demand government controlled evidence. you want proof that's within the corrupt system. where is your proof? An official report is not proof by far.

You kind of have to get passed the way society tells you to think before you can look at this in a balanced way. Building 7 wasn't even hit by a place yet it fell perfectly straight down in seven seconds. There was tons of video cameras facing the pentagon when it was hit. they were immediately confiscated and then there was(and still is) a whole bunch of questions being asked about what really did hit the pentagon. one 5 frame video was released that didn't show what hit the pentagon. To prove that plane hit the building all they would have to do was release one of those videos.. Yet they didn't. These are two of the biggest examples of what could easily make a reasonable person skeptical. I know Grissie is going to post quoting this saying "That's not evidence" like he always does. But he uses that to justify avoiding the questions I ask him and a way to convince himself that I'm just a crazy delirious conspiracy theorists. We've gone far past that and I've countered him on it many times but he's conditioned and far too gone to wake up to reality.

The point is the problem isn't that i don't show enough evidence, that's a front you guys use to reject everything I say at once. The problem is you guys are conditioned into societies beliefs and until you get passed that and open your mind to other possibilities you won't get anywhere.