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September 11th: Real or Fraud?

Was 9/11 an inside job?

  • Yes

    Votes: 46 33.8%
  • No

    Votes: 90 66.2%

  • Total voters
    136
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^Yes I have. I've been researching this topic for many years. I am open-minded--unlike that pot-smoking Kam guy. Maybe it was terrorists, maybe it was CIA planned. I think the world will eventually know the 100% truth, but probably long after we're dead. If I could ever meet Professor Jones (I mean, do I trust a mormon professor? Not really lol) and those Danish professors that claimed to have found traces of thermite in the WTC remains, it would be interesting. Do I trust anything I read--not really. I trust my gut, and my gut says "I am always right." :D
 
^Yes I have. I've been researching this topic for many years. I am open-minded... I trust my gut, and my gut says "I am always right."

Yes, sure, you've been "researching" the topic for years - yet you can offer nothing reasonable in terms of actual supporting evidence.


Sadly, opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one.
 
I'm willing to entertain the idea that 9/11 was an inside job. At the very least I think there's a decent chance that there's more to this story than we know. I just need to see some evidence before believing it... evidence beyond some raving dude on the internet who provides only YouTube links and accusations that we're all government sheep. We call that "low level evidence" in science.
 
Exactly. I've definitely got an open mind about what exactly happened -- as you say, likely more than we know or perhaps will ever know -- but conspiracy theories don't cut it for me, especially when they consist of "it's not what you see, it was something else" with no specifics, no facts, nothing beyond interesting (and sometimes questionable) circumstances.
 
Part of the problem with giving "evidence" is that the mainstream will always attack you and shut you down. It's just the nature of the beast. For example, if you dare suggest a Mossad link, the ADL will get on your case and make you look like a raving lunatic. That's the sad reality of America today.
 
The trouble is that "suggesting" is often baseless, or simply an excuse for trying to fill in a blank regarding what you don't know, don't want to know, or who you want to blame. The big "problem" with evidence is that people who wish to promote their conspiracy theory typically can't produce any. In fact, far too many of these individuals either do not understand what the appropriate evidence is, or they can't understand how it is necessary to supporting their assertions. "Gut" feelings, fears, paranoia, confused questions or vague suspicions are not evidence.

It's kind of like me saying that all 9/11 conspiracy theorists and those who hold a belief that it was all an inside government job are conspiring to to undermine the government. I don't have any actual proof, but the fact that all those individuals are questioning the credibility of the government sure looks like they really want to do this. So you can go on saying it was the government that did it, and I can keep saying that your aim is to attack and undermine the government.
 
Part of the problem with giving "evidence" is that the mainstream will always attack you and shut you down. It's just the nature of the beast. For example, if you dare suggest a Mossad link, the ADL will get on your case and make you look like a raving lunatic. That's the sad reality of America today.

The lack of proof is proof!
 
You kind of have to get passed the way society tells you to think before you can look at this in a balanced way. Building 7 wasn't even hit by a place yet it fell perfectly straight down in seven seconds. There was tons of video cameras facing the pentagon when it was hit. they were immediately confiscated and then there was(and still is) a whole bunch of questions being asked about what really did hit the pentagon. one 5 frame video was released that didn't show what hit the pentagon. To prove that plane hit the building all they would have to do was release one of those videos.. Yet they didn't. These are two of the biggest examples of what could easily make a reasonable person skeptical. I know Grissie is going to post quoting this saying "That's not evidence" like he always does. But he uses that to justify avoiding the questions I ask him and a way to convince himself that I'm just a crazy delirious conspiracy theorists. We've gone far past that and I've countered him on it many times but he's conditioned and far too gone to wake up to reality.

The point is the problem isn't that i don't show enough evidence, that's a front you guys use to reject everything I say at once. The problem is you guys are conditioned into societies beliefs and until you get passed that and open your mind to other possibilities you won't get anywhere.

Explained.

I'm willing to entertain the idea that 9/11 was an inside job. At the very least I think there's a decent chance that there's more to this story than we know. I just need to see some evidence before believing it... evidence beyond some raving dude on the internet who provides only YouTube links and accusations that we're all government sheep. We call that "low level evidence" in science.

Well I've said many times not to believe me and go research it for yourself. there's tons of information out there and the type of evidence some people demand is what i think a way to reject conspiracies all at once based on something that appears strong but if you look closer the type of evidence they will demand is pretty much impossible to get unless the government was to come out and admit to everything.

Exactly. I've definitely got an open mind about what exactly happened -- as you say, likely more than we know or perhaps will ever know -- but conspiracy theories don't cut it for me, especially when they consist of "it's not what you see, it was something else" with no specifics, no facts, nothing beyond interesting (and sometimes questionable) circumstances.

You talk as if only a small group of people come out and scream about conspiracies. You claim to have research this but i have a hard time that you have done much research and/more watched an entire documentary with an open mind. And my with an open-mind I mean to not have started with a conclusion that "conspiracy theorists" are delusional. Your subconscious mind can put up barriers to protect you from things you don't want to know and would rather doubt. Remember that time when you were in denial about something and tried to convince yourself that you were right but eventually realized you were wrong? I'm sure it's happened to all of us and that's an example of the kind of barriers our minds can create.about something and tried to convince yourself that you were right but eventually realized you were wrong? That's an example of the kind of barriers your mind can create if you can think back and remember how silly it was deny something that may of been obvious but your mind still did it. Not saying that you're in foolish denial or anything.. just giving an example of how your brain can create barriers like that.

The trouble is that "suggesting" is often baseless, or simply an excuse for trying to fill in a blank regarding what you don't know, don't want to know, or who you want to blame. The big "problem" with evidence is that people who wish to promote their conspiracy theory typically can't produce any. In fact, far too many of these individuals either do not understand what the appropriate evidence is, or they can't understand how it is necessary to supporting their assertions. "Gut" feelings, fears, paranoia, confused questions or vague suspicions are not evidence.

Yes because apparently we can't share our opinions without backing it up with government proof. You're not going to find scientific journals that "prove" that the media does that if they did.. which they do.

It's kind of like me saying that all 9/11 conspiracy theorists and those who hold a belief that it was all an inside government job are conspiring to to undermine the government. I don't have any actual proof, but the fact that all those individuals are questioning the credibility of the government sure looks like they really want to do this. So you can go on saying it was the government that did it, and I can keep saying that your aim is to attack and undermine the government.

It almost looks like your first sentence contradicts the last point you made. Sure I'm trying to undermined the governments credibility but because they're extremely fraudulent, what other reason would I have? Us "conspiracy theorists" just attack the government for fun? millions of them just doing it for some.. unknown reason? Second time I've brought this up but how can you some of you guys convince yourself that theres millions of people out there who are delirious lunatic paranoid people just attacking the government for some unknown reason?

I hope some of you plan to watch invisible empire. I'm not offering this as scientific proof of course because.. a scientist would obviously never get away with publishing this type of proof. But here it is..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO24XmP1c5E&feature=fvst

I haven't watched the entire film yet but I hope you guys get the time. Also How Weed Won The West:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAe0whJVz6g

Lucy.. watch these!
 
You do know that the pentagon is an important military facility right? You ever think that is why video was confiscated? Because they don't want the enemy to know what was damaged and how? Military folks are kind of secretive like that.

And I didn't say I had done extensive research into 9/11. I said I'm a researcher. Try to read what people say; when you start reading words that people aren't writing, it's no wonder we question you.

You keep saying we are asking for government proof. No, we are asking for any proof. At all. Not just "keep an open mind", but specific facts. Is that too much to ask? You have yet to offer any kind of logical explanation for what happened except to say "it's not what we think". OK, so what did happen exactly and how do you know that?
 
You do know that the pentagon is an important military facility right? You ever think that is why video was confiscated? Because they don't want the enemy to know what was damaged and how? Military folks are kind of secretive like that.

Yes and there is many photos and videos of the pentagon after it was hit. There is a whole bunch of controversy over what hit the pentagon and they're hiding the videos that clearly show what hit it.. common. Being skeptical of "conspiracy theorists" is one thing, but many posts by Grissie and in this one you attempted to justify something the government did, so why are you trying to justify something the government did? How do you know the government is honest? they've been caught lying over and over again about all kinds of things so why is it that you're not skeptical of the government yet you're skeptical of "conspiracy theorists"? Why do you automatically believe the government?

And I didn't say I had done extensive research into 9/11. I said I'm a researcher. Try to read what people say; when you start reading words that people aren't writing, it's no wonder we question you.

Well I'm sorry but it did imply that.

You keep saying we are asking for government proof. No, we are asking for any proof. At all. Not just "keep an open mind", but specific facts. Is that too much to ask? You have yet to offer any kind of logical explanation for what happened except to say "it's not what we think". OK, so what did happen exactly and how do you know that?

Absolute proof cannot provided unless you individually were there and seen what exactly happened. Whatever I show you you'll just reject and there's tons of information out there and neither sides have this "proof" that's just another way to justify rejecting it. All i was asking is for people to be open-minded and not to be conditioned by the media and society and just to look outside the box because it may surprise you. We already know the government lies about drugs and drug system setup makes no sense.. There's no "proof" but you and I know that, see? It's not about "proof" It's about using logic in combination with an open-mind.
 
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I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions, just offer a plausible explanation based on their previous actions. I don't know if that's what happened to the tapes, I just suggested that might be what happened.

And I didn't imply anything. You inferred. Incorrectly.
 
We all know Washington is lying to us. Why believe anything the lying class says to us plebes? That lack of Pentagon tapes is surely the giveaway...! If GWB and co could lie about WMD in Iraq, and now the Obama and co regime is lying to us about the Iran threat, then duh!--lying about what happened on 911 is common sense conclusion!
 
You kind of have to get passed the way society tells you to think before you can look at this in a balanced way.

Maybe you have to get over your absurd belief that you alone have some sort of special vision about what is true or not true.

The point is the problem isn't that i don't show enough evidence, that's a front you guys use to reject everything I say at once.

If you claim that a conspiracy exists, you have to prove as much. You have failed to provide any evidence to support your assertion. Based on that complete lack of evidence, you have failed to open your mind to the fact that you are wrong about the conspiracy you claim exists. That makes you closed-minded and a hypocrite for demanding that others open their minds when you won't.

Well I've said many times not to believe me and go research it for yourself.

And why should people be doing this? Just because you say so? Face is Kamuix, you want others to do research because you have failed to come up with any evidence yourself.

Yes because apparently we can't share our opinions without backing it up with government proof. You're not going to find scientific journals that "prove" that the media does that if they did.. which they do.

Kamuix, then all you have is an opinion and nothing more. You have no evidence for a conspiracy, you have nothing reasonable to offer in terms of an account of this conspiracy, and even fail to comprehend the simple fact that your misunderstandings and lack of knowledge don't point to a plot or conspiracy. You refer to secret materials and confiscated recording as if you have actual knowledge of the contents of these things. You don't.

It almost looks like your first sentence contradicts the last point you made. Sure I'm trying to undermined the governments credibility but because they're extremely fraudulent, what other reason would I have? Us "conspiracy theorists" just attack the government for fun? millions of them just doing it for some.. unknown reason? Second time I've brought this up but how can you some of you guys convince yourself that theres millions of people out there who are delirious lunatic paranoid people just attacking the government for some unknown reason?

Based on your admission, my assertion of a conspiracy on the part of 'conspiracy theorists' wishing to overthrow the government actually has legs to stand on. So far, that's way more evidence than you have offered throughout this entire thread. So according to your own admission here, you are attacking the government (you don't say which one) because you claim it's fraudulent (but you don't say how). You then whine about how you are not taken seriously, etc.

The paragraph of yours that I have quoted shows just how vague and empty your claims are. You operate entirely in the realm of supposition, offer no evidence, fail to construct what could remotely be referred to as a logical argument, offer no plausible counter-claim that can be backed up or supported in any reasonable manner and have the gall to suggest that anyone disagreeing with your bellyaching (because you don't even have a defined 'position') is somehow closed-minded or suffering from some unspecified 'conditioning' (which, once again, you offer no clear description, proof or evidence for). It's a terribly pathetic effort.

All you do is rehash the same empty statements over and over. As true believer, your "you just wait and see" stance comes off as hollow. When it comes to whatever it is you are promoting (joining your delusion festival or paranoia party), you really fall flat. And still, no actual evidence.
 
We all know Washington is lying to us. Why believe anything the lying class says to us plebes? That lack of Pentagon tapes is surely the giveaway...! If GWB and co could lie about WMD in Iraq, and now the Obama and co regime is lying to us about the Iran threat, then duh!--lying about what happened on 911 is common sense conclusion!

even the most pathological of liars don't lie 100% of the time. if only it was so clear cut that when you found out someone lied about one thing, you would know without doubt that they lie about everything. it isn't so clear cut.
 
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