September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[Kamuix]

So marijuana is good, and fluoride and Aspartame are toxic... riiiight...

I didn't necessarily say marijuana is good, but yes it's much better then both fluoride and Aspartame. They're much more toxic. Read the links and do some good research.

By the way, as someone who works in mental health, I can confirm that marijuana is linked to psychosis... at times psychosis that persists beyond the acute intoxication. The association with schizophrenia per se is not as clear.

Societies conditioning. Attack marijuana but leave Alcohol and Tobacco alone, they have special privileges.

So this regular Coke I'm drinking right now is okay? Whew, what a relief!

In my imaginary world, I'd legalize recreational use of marijuana only for those under 40. There are few things more pathetic than being in the company of a middle-aged pothead.

In the real world, I'm fine with how things are now.

Hehe, well there's obviously things that aren't good for you in Coke, but it's far better then the diet colas.

It's funny that you say that though. So in your mind it's pathetic to smoke pot if you're middle aged or older. You may want to consider that it may have something to do with the way the laws and society has turned it into. Being drunk is ok.. but middle aged people smoking pot? what losers.. Judgmental a bit? You gotta remember what these laws are based on. If you go back in history to why marijuana was made illegal.. That's what societies views and therefor your society based views are based on.

And seriously do some looking around on Fluoride and Aspartame. Especially you ganjavih who did the whole "right..." thing on me. You're in for a surprise at some point.

 

[GenerationW]

Never assume -- I'm not too fond of regular drinkers either.

 

[ganjavih]

In my imaginary world, I'd legalize recreational use of marijuana only for those under 40. There are few things more pathetic than being in the company of a middle-aged pothead.

I agree about middle-aged apathetic potheads. But it's also important to remember that the developing adolescent brain has been found to be especially vulnerable to the effects of heavy cannabis use, and that's where the risk of psychosis is highest.

 

[ganjavih]

Kamuix, who said it's OK to be drunk? Long-term alcohol abuse is known to lead to brain damage causing all sorts of neurological symptoms including dementia. Alcohol withdrawal can lead to seizures, psychosis including visual hallucinations, and even death.

Although I usually don't promote the dissemination of junk science, I'm curious about your fluoride theories.

 

[Dilla]

Societies conditioning.

Kamuix: Conditioned by no one. Not even Alex Jones.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I'm confused, is this thread now about drugs and/or chemicals in common use that may be detrimental to future health?

Lemme guess: "THE GOVERNMENT SAYS FAKE SUGAR'S GOOD FOR YOU BUT IT ACTUALLY ISN'T LOOK!"
I prefer non-diet/zero/max drinks myself. Not just because I believe that there are actually adverse health affects to them, but they just taste terrible to me.

 

[kEiThZ]

I can't thank you guys enough for taking on the truther troll. Nothing annoys me more than to encounter such individuals who routinely resort to calling me (and everybody else in uniform) easy-to-dupe morons, who are mere tools of government.....a new-found extension of that "all soldiers are baby-killers" canard. I usually bite my tongue and move on. Such individuals in my experience are rarely worth the effort. Very rare that any are engineers (oh noes! a conspiracy among all the worlds engineers!). And very rare that they will discuss any of the hard science behind their assertions. They hide behind other talking heads or vague assertions about how the US government is corrupt and that we don't know better, blah, blah, blah.

So yeah thanks for tolerating this individuals rather assertive exercise of his right to ignorance. Ain't freedom of expression (paid for in blood by those tools of the government) a bitch.....

 

[kEiThZ]

You've gone further to try and create the illusion that everything I've shown is complete nonsense...

And by and far, you'll find general agreement that Gristle has succeeded.

But that's just the conditioning talking or is it conditioner? That papaya extract can be hard on the brain!

 

[Kamuix]

So yeah thanks for tolerating this individuals rather assertive exercise of his right to ignorance. Ain't freedom of expression (paid for in blood by those tools of the government) a bitch.....

So you're turning it around and making it look like I or "were" crazy huh? And that we don't like free speech? yet we're losing free speech all the time. Have you actually researched any of this stuff? So you can't thank them enough for taking on us bad truth people. As if 9/11 wasn't an inside job and all the people demanding a new investigation are bad. Our government is just the victim here.. Again have you done any research? Doesn't count what you were taught in school and what the media tells you every time.

Here's some interesting thing you should see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPUeeUW1lqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-byU_92NcN8

Question: do you support the wars? do you support the war on drugs? so you support the government takeover of businesses and health care? do you have any idea what you've just said in the post you just posted? You need to do some research and take a look around. Watch some documentaries, do some research. Obviously I'm for free speech I like how you implied that I'm not? I'm just trying to get people to be more open minded and research some of the stuff. Rather then give into the media. It's amazing being up close to people who haven't a clue what government is doing while hating on those who speak out against it.

I'm confused, is this thread now about drugs and/or chemicals in common use that may be detrimental to future health?

Lemme guess: "THE GOVERNMENT SAYS FAKE SUGAR'S GOOD FOR YOU BUT IT ACTUALLY ISN'T LOOK!"
I prefer non-diet/zero/max drinks myself. Not just because I believe that there are actually adverse health affects to them, but they just taste terrible to me.

I never said that, but by manipulating what i said you can sure make me sound stupid.. Good job!

Although I usually don't promote the dissemination of junk science, I'm curious about your fluoride theories.

Well I've given you a few links two posts ago. Take a look around and do some research, watch some documentaries, read books about it, whatever just i beg you to at least look around a bit before deciding that only nuts support the "theory". By the way since you don't really know much about it maybe you shouldn't call it theory? That's been a typical way of discrediting things like that. I can promise none of this stuff is theory based.

And by and far, you'll find general agreement that Gristle has succeeded.

But that's just the conditioning talking or is it conditioner? That papaya extract can be hard on the brain!

Well i don't know it depends how other forum viewers are perceiving it.. All he did was reject any possibility of a conspiracy because i didn't show him instant government documented evidence of a government conspiracy which seems would be little hard if they're the ones behind things like this. Not to mention dodging other things i asked him.

If you're ignorant to the possibility that there is more then a bit of corruption in the government then you may just feel comfort in that everyone has been bashing me and what I've had to say. It's not information that matters sometimes in arguments, it's numbers.

I mean.. Common guys. All I'm trying to do is get people to look outside the box. I know it's easy to just hate what's socially unpopular.. But I guarantee you'll thank yourself if you just give it a chance. I'm not AT ALL asking you to just believe what I'm saying. I'm asking you to first open your minds because without that you'll get no where. And research on the net about Fluoride, Aspartame and other things! The Internet is different in that it's not at all government controlled. It's pretty much 100% free. At least right now.

And i know wwwebster was mocking me by bringing up something stupid he found on the net. Well yea when somethings free for everyone to use there's going to be stupid things on it. That just happens.

 

[gristle]

Here's the problem Grissie, all you've done is attack that I haven't shown you enough evidence to convince you that 9/11 is an inside job therefor you reject it completely. Not giving the idea a chance even though I've said that that's all I'm trying to do many times. Now you're become more aggressive in doing the same thing. A conspiracy cannot be proven to someone who has been successfully brainwashed and conditioned and has tunnel vision on this.

It's not that you have failed to show enough evidence Kamuix, it's that you have shown no evidence whatsoever to support your assertion. What's more, you haven't even bothered to outline a specific account of your supposed conspiracy. A mere suspicion or paranoid belief is not evidence. No matter how much you wish it to be so, your wishful thinking is never a substitute for actual verifiable information and supporting evidence. The empty chatter about brainwashing is yet another limp failure at trying to deflect the obvious fact that you have zero to offer to back up your claims.

You've gone further to try and create the illusion that everything I've shown is complete nonsense

All you have "shown" is links to websites. So what. Otherwise, as noted, you have offered nothing.

Every time you've quotes something i've said you make the same point but worded differently that I've happened to counteract at least 12 times. You're agenda is to make me look stupid. It has nothing to do with 9/11 anymore.

I've repeated what I've said because you clearly don't understand that you require evidence to back up your claims of a conspiracy. As for any agenda to make you look stupid, you don't need my help. And as for 9/11, that is what this thread is about.

So now that your attempt to dismiss a conspiracy simply by dismissing me for not personally showing you all that documentation you demand has not worked.

Your assertion regarding a conspiracy has been dismissed because you have failed to supply any reasonable or logical account to support your claims, nor have you provided any evidence to back those assertions. The only person who can't see this is you.

I gave up on that because it's obvious that you're too narrow minded to even consider it but really don't you see... I know you're more then smart enough to know what I'm talking about, but when it comes to narrow minded people it seems their emotions get the better of them.

You gave up because you have nothing to offer other than your "feelings." Other than that, you resort to calling people narrow-minded or brainwashed. Again, the name calling is just a feeble attempt to divert attention that you actually can't describe anything remotely substantial regarding your conspiracy beliefs. You have offered nothing of value.

I understand that there's not much you can do now Grissie, your mind is too far gone under. The reason this makes me mad is it's because of people like you that the country doesn't wake up to the things our government has really been doing.

The first sentence of the quote is fascinating. It's kind of smokey and delusional. You speak as if you have knowledge of my mind - just like you speak of knowledge of a conspiracy regarding 9/11. Based on the latter, you still have offered nothing in terms of evidence. The same can be said of your knowledge regarding my thoughts; you have zero in terms of substance to offer.

As for the second sentence, history is filled with examples of your approach: witch hunters, zealots delusional conspiracy theorists who see devils under the bed and government plots at every corner. For you, the danger of evidence is that it forces you to measure the accuracy of your self-assumed beliefs. Verifiable evidence is actually threatening for you, hence the reason why you avoid it altogether. Making empty claims and engaging in appeals to ignorance are your stock in trade.

Research that guys please.

You made the claim, you provide the research. And not more mickey-mouse conspiracy sites. How about actual science?

Otherwise, your shallow attempts to get others to do what you ought to be doing makes you come off as intellectually lazy.

It's people like Grissie who can't get passed what's he's been conditioned to think. It's not about intelligence.

I'm here Kamuix, you can address me directly. Why don't you show respect for the people who visit this thread by backing up all your conspiracy claims with evidence? I challenge you to do this. If you don't I will continue to point out your failings in that regard.

Provide proof to back up your claims. Not garbage websites, not poorly constructed questions, no appeals to your personal feelings or beliefs, but real verifiable evidence.

You don't have to be very smart to see that 9/11 was an inside job, you just need to do a little research and be a little open-minded, that's it. And i say we'll just have to wait and see because the only way for you to learn is obviously going to be the hard way.

Funny, earlier you stated it wasn't about 9/11 anymore. As for waiting and seeing, that's not proof either Kamuix. How about some evidence - right now!

 

[Kamuix]

It's not that you have failed to show enough evidence Kamuix, it's that you have shown no evidence whatsoever to support your assertion. What's more, you haven't even bothered to outline a specific account of your supposed conspiracy. A mere suspicion or paranoid belief is not evidence. No matter how much you wish it to be so, your wishful thinking is never a substitute for actual verifiable information and supporting evidence. The empty chatter about brainwashing is yet another limp failure at trying to deflect the obvious fact that you zero to offer to back up your claims.

I have shown a lot of Information and given many links. Not to mention where is the evidence for the side you're defending? You're on the side of the government and what the media has been telling us. Where's your evidence? You'll say "You made an assertion so you should back it up with evidence" But you've made it clear where your opinion stands by calling mine delusional. So implying that you stand where the general society stands for the most part, you can't prove anything more then i can so.. where's that evidence Grissie?

All you have "shown" is links to websites. So what. Otherwise, as noted, you offered nothing.

I've offered a lot of documentaries, shows, reports, questions etc.. Now remember I'm just trying to get people to look outside the box. You keep implying when you make these circle posts that I'm trying to prove something.

I've repeated what I've said because you clearly don't understand that you require evidence to back up your claims of a conspiracy. As for any agenda to make you look stupid, you don't need my help. And as for 9/11, that is what this thread is about.

>Now remember I'm just trying to get people to look outside the box. You keep implying when you make these circle posts that I'm trying to prove something. I don't need your help? You don't need mine.

Your assertion regarding a conspiracy has been dismissed because you have failed to supply any reasonable or logical account to support your claims, nor have you provided any evidence to back those assertions. The only person who can't see this is you.

>I've offered a lot of documentaries, shows, reports, questions etc.. Now remember I'm just trying to get people to look outside the box. You keep implying when you make these circle posts that I'm trying to prove something. Not to mention where is the evidence for the side you're defending? You're on the side of the government and what the media has been telling us. Where's your evidence?

You gave up because you have nothing to offer other than your "feelings." Other than that, you resort to calling people narrow-minded or brainwashed. Again, the name calling is just a feeble attempt to divert attention that you actually can't describe anything remotely substantial regarding your conspiracy beliefs. You have offered nothing of value.

>I've offered a lot of documentaries, shows, reports, questions etc.. Now remember I'm just trying to get people to look outside the box. You keep implying when you make these circle posts that I'm trying to prove something. Not to mention where is the evidence for the side you're defending? You're on the side of the government and what the media has been telling us. Where's your evidence?

The first sentence of the quote is fascinating. It's kind of smokey and delusional. You speak as if you have knowledge of my mind - just like you speak of knowledge of a conspiracy regarding 9/11. Based on the latter, you still have offered nothing in terms of evidence. The same can be said of your knowledge regarding my thoughts, you have zero in terms of substance to offer.

>I've offered a lot of documentaries, shows, reports, questions etc.. Now remember I'm just trying to get people to look outside the box. You keep implying when you make these circle posts that I'm trying to prove something. Not to mention where is the evidence for the side you're defending? You're on the side of the government and what the media has been telling us. Where's your evidence?

You made the claim, you provide the research. And not more mickey-mouse conspiracy sites. How about actual science? Your shallow attempts to get others to do what you ought to be doing makes you come off as intellectually lazy.

>I've offered a lot of documentaries, shows, reports, questions etc.. Now remember I'm just trying to get people to look outside the box. You keep implying when you make these circle posts that I'm trying to prove something. Not to mention where is the evidence for the side you're defending? You're on the side of the government and what the media has been telling us. Where's your evidence?

I'm here Kamuix, you can address me directly. Why don't you show respect for the people who visit this thread by backing up all your conspiracy claims with evidence? I challenge you to do this. If you don't I will continue to point out your failings in that regard.

Provide evidence to back up your claims. Not garbage websites, not poorly constructed questions, no appeals to your personal feelings or beliefs, but real verifiable evidence.

Don't make it seem like I'm disrespecting people here.. common.

What I've shown may not exactly prove anything to you, but it does "prove" if you will, that people should be skeptical of their government and ask questions. And that there is good evidence to suggest a conspiracy. However you perceive what is out there, it's up to you. I've said many times that I'm not trying to directly prove anything. I said I'm trying to get people to look outside the box and do more research etc. If you don't think there's enough information out there to think "maybe the government IS lying to us" Then that's up to you. Also saying that it's all based of believes and delusional paranoid thoughts or
whatever shows that you have an agenda. We've been over this too many times. If you're not up for real discussion.. I don't see the point in repeating yourself.

Funny, earlier you stated it wasn't about 9/11 anymore. As for waiting and seeing, that's not proof either Kamuix. How about some evidence - right now!

Sheesh.. you make the assumption I'm trying to offer everything as proof, even when i keep saying i'm not trying to offer it was proof, but just trying to get people to be open minded. Well in my opinion you're too far gone to even consider/open your mind to the possibility of a conspiracy. Time is all i can offer you now. But when i say wait and see I'm not offering those words as proof, it's what the words mean, know what I'm saying?

I mean.. Common guys. All I'm trying to do is get people to look outside the box. I know it's easy to just hate what's socially unpopular.. But I guarantee you'll thank yourself if you just give it a chance. I'm not AT ALL asking you to just believe what I'm saying. I'm asking you to first open your minds because without that you'll get no where. And research on the net about Fluoride, Aspartame and other things! The Internet is different in that it's not at all government controlled. It's pretty much 100% free. At least right now.

And i know wwwebster was mocking me by bringing up something stupid he found on the net. Well yea when somethings free for everyone to use there's going to be stupid things on it. That just happens.

 

[wwwebster]

And i know wwwebster was mocking me by bringing up something stupid he found on the net.

Found this, too. Nine minutes and nine seconds of pure gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

 

[kEiThZ]

So you're turning it around and making it look like I or "were" crazy huh?

You don't need help on that front, trust me.

Question: do you support the wars? do you support the war on drugs? so you support the government takeover of businesses and health care?

I fully support the war in Afghanistan and maybe getting deployed there next year (so yes, i put my life where my mouth is). I am ambivalent on the war on drugs (I wouldn't advocate an absolute laissez-faire attitude but neither do I accept the tactics and goals of the US government on that issue). And I have no issues with government takeover of health care. It's worked relatively well in Canada. As for government takeover of business, no issues with that either. I'd rather have temporary government intervention over millions of workers unemployed. And practically speaking how is government intervention in a failing business all that different from the government providing employment insurance?

Well i don't know it depends how other forum viewers are perceiving it.. All he did was reject any possibility of a conspiracy because i didn't show him instant government documented evidence of a government conspiracy which seems would be little hard if they're the ones behind things like this. Not to mention dodging other things i asked him.

And you've dodged every request he's made for evidence. I have gone through the entire thread. You haven't provided a shred of proof to back up your assertions. Nor have you discussed in an intelligent fashion at all, the scientific merits of your arguments. That's what's making you look like a nutter. You'd have far more credibility if you dropped the persecution syndrome and focused on making your case. Instead, you keep complaining about gristle's actions instead of making your case.

If you're ignorant to the possibility that there is more then a bit of corruption in the government then you may just feel comfort in that everyone has been bashing me and what I've had to say. It's not information that matters sometimes in arguments, it's numbers.

Guess what? Most of us could not care less about the current level of corruption in government. I am sure there's some. But it does not concern me enough to get on the internet and troll a forum largely about urban affairs in Toronto with my paranoid delusions.

I mean.. Common guys. All I'm trying to do is get people to look outside the box. I know it's easy to just hate what's socially unpopular.. But I guarantee you'll thank yourself if you just give it a chance. I'm not AT ALL asking you to just believe what I'm saying. I'm asking you to first open your minds because without that you'll get no where. And research on the net about Fluoride, Aspartame and other things! The Internet is different in that it's not at all government controlled. It's pretty much 100% free. At least right now.

It's not just socially unpopular. It's downright disgusting and ludicrous that you were turn the deaths of thousands of innocents into the centre piece of your paranoid delusiosn about "the man". You sir, demean, the deaths of those people by making them mere props in your propaganda. This is why I absolutely despise truthers. They don't care about truth. And they don't care about the people they hurt each and every time they spew their crap. One can only imagine what the families of 9/11 victims go through, every time they come across nutjobs like yourself.

And i know wwwebster was mocking me by bringing up something stupid he found on the net. Well yea when somethings free for everyone to use there's going to be stupid things on it. That just happens.

Kinda brings the whole credibility of the internet which you claim to be 100% free into question doesn't it? Free does not equal intelligent or credible.

 

[kEiThZ]

I have shown a lot of Information and given many links.

By other nutjobs who don't provide concrete evidence either. More conspiracy theories from other conspiracy theorists does not evidence make.

Not to mention where is the evidence for the side you're defending?

Well there was that whole 9/11 truth commission, reports by the national institutes of standards and technology, etc.

You're on the side of the government and what the media has been telling us. Where's your evidence?

See above and I'll take the undisputable math and phsyics (numbers are politically neutral after all) of the NIST over the ramblings of a paranoid and delusional conspiracy theorist. You want to convince me, show me the math. Show me where the NIST screwed up in their analysis.

Here's the report:

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/

And don't worry, I am an engineer, big equations don't scare me.Please feel free to let me know when you've found flaws in their calculations (and don't forget to show your work).

And I want links to reports with actual calculations and engineering analysis not ridiculous claims about the government or how the NIST is biased. Show me hard engineering that proves ridiculous theories like a controlled demolition.

 

[PinkLucy]

Found this, too. Nine minutes and nine seconds of pure gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

Awesome. And good reminder that a lot of people died, and we shouldn't forget that. Unless of course they're all in the witness protection program or something.

Good luck KeithZ.