Sam's Sign and the Yonge Street Heritage Zeitgeist

[dt_toronto_geek]

I think adma's response was more than appropriate here.

On the topic at hand, we're talking white vs. black - there's no grey area here.

True, although my response was tongue-in-cheek. I probably rag on the areas I grew up in as a kid more than anyone else (Markham and Stouffville, blech).

Now it's been probably 20 years, but when I used to drive to Stouffville, sometimes through Markham, (my dad had his business in Stouffville from the early 70's to mid 90's) both towns had a rather nice, interesting mix of older surviving buildings in the central area of their main streets. I hope it hasn't changed that much.

 

[adma]

True, although my response was tongue-in-cheek. I probably rag on the areas I grew up in as a kid more than anyone else (Markham and Stouffville, blech).

Though honestly, the "buds" we're dealing with here would probably be just as ignorant dealing with whatever heritage-type fabric exists in Markham & Stouffville, even...

 

[devjohnson]

This is very typical Toronto attitude towards the look and feel of our city. If anything was built to look like a stripmall in Newmarket on Yonge St. downtown, I would wish immediate implosion upon completion of construction. Enough of this settling for mediocrity people!

Obviously, I wasn't serious about Yonge looking exactly like a Newmarket strip mall. A bit of an overreach on my part.

The change in the Yonge/Dundas area is inevitable. Chain stores, condos, and modern projects lining up Yonge Street will happen in such a prime location of the city. I know my opinion is unpopular, but I'm glad they are constructing stellar projects on Yonge Street like the Ryerson SLC that can clean up this street, as "generic" as Yonge Street will become. There is a reason why I avoid the area.

 

[Tewder]

Of course Yonge St looks "tacky" to young suburbanites visiting the big city. But once Walmart or Target sets up shop on Yonge, those independent non chain crummy retail shops and old buildings, will be replaced by even more American chain stores and corporate restaurants. Making Yonge st " a prime shopping destination" Visitors from Vaughan and Newmarket will feel right at home

... but Yonge Street always was a 'prime shopping destination' for folks in the burbs, and precisely because of Sam's and the gritty urban draw of pre-internet-era Yonge Street. I'm thinking of Brian Wilson by the Ladies:

Drove downtown in the rain
Nine-thirty on a Tuesday night,
Just to check out the late-night
Record shop.
Call it impulsive
Call it compulsive,
Call it insane;
But when I'm surrounded
I just can't
Stop.

Yonge Street wasn't just a draw for Toronto, it was a cultural beacon for the whole area. Hanging out at Sam's, spending hours digging through the bins was a rite of passage, as much as 'cruising' up and down Yonge Street was... ideas that would be completely unfathomable today to generation y-aged yuppies whose predominant cultural experience of media is by way of iTunes.

In this sense Hume's got it all wrong. The Sam's sign doesn't just represent a defunct 'business', it symbolizes a defunct society. No, this isn't high brow heritage stuff but it is an engaging part of the city's cultural history, and recent enough to still be meaningful to many, clearly. I don't believe it needs to be slapped on to the Learning Centre, but Ryerson should absolutely honor its commitment to install it artfully somewhere in the Yonge/Dundas area, and indeed they should be made to! I don't really understand why this is even up for debate?

 

[RiverCity1]

I know my opinion is unpopular, but I'm glad they are constructing stellar projects on Yonge Street like the Ryerson SLC that can clean up this street, as "generic" as Yonge Street will become. There is a reason why I avoid the area.

People have strong opinions about Yonge St. I was never a fan and it was never my scene. As a kid in the 1980's, it was scary and gross. But my older brothers loved the head shops, adult stores, Sam's etc. I prefer it much better now as a combination of gritty and generic. Plus, it's not too embarrassing for those with little kids in tow. When I look back at old photo's of Yonge in the '70s...this had to have been the worst street in Canada.

 

[someMidTowner]

When I look back at old photo's of Yonge in the '70s...this had to have been the worst street in Canada.

For a priest, yea it would have been pretty terrible. But for the larger demographic who were involved in the 70s counterculture scene, it was probably pretty damn interesting.

 

[RiverCity1]

I understand

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

For a priest, yea it would have been pretty terrible. But for the larger demographic who were involved in the 70s counterculture scene, it was probably pretty damn interesting.

Not unlike Queen West back in the day, less the adult venues.

 

[DtTO]

Obviously, I wasn't serious about Yonge looking exactly like a Newmarket strip mall. A bit of an overreach on my part.

The change in the Yonge/Dundas area is inevitable. Chain stores, condos, and modern projects lining up Yonge Street will happen in such a prime location of the city. I know my opinion is unpopular, but I'm glad they are constructing stellar projects on Yonge Street like the Ryerson SLC that can clean up this street, as "generic" as Yonge Street will become. There is a reason why I avoid the area.

Your opinion isn't as unpopular as you might think. Yonge is down right embarrassing, and the sooner it is completely reimagined and cleaned up, the better. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, "heritage" designation should be an exception (that is; to denote an "exceptional" building), rather than the norm. We can't just label half of Yonge as "heritage," because that would make us complacent (incidentally, complacency seems like a perfect descriptor of someone as afraid of change as Adma).

 

[nopacnone]

Obviously, I wasn't serious about Yonge looking exactly like a Newmarket strip mall. A bit of an overreach on my part.

The change in the Yonge/Dundas area is inevitable. Chain stores, condos, and modern projects lining up Yonge Street will happen in such a prime location of the city. I know my opinion is unpopular, but I'm glad they are constructing stellar projects on Yonge Street like the Ryerson SLC that can clean up this street, as "generic" as Yonge Street will become. There is a reason why I avoid the area.

Agreed, Yonge isn't a prime spot for cool indie shops like say Queen west. There's mostly generic overpriced gift shops, and it is DEAD on weekend evenings. Any tourist on Yonge on a saturday night will get the impression that Toronto has NOTHING to offer. Hopefully the new residents in these condo towers will add some life to the strip.

 

[Torontovibe]

I grew up in North York (Lawrence & Bathurst area) and I used to love going downtown to Yonge Street, Kensington Market and The Beaches in the 70's & 80's. I used to get so excited as soon as I could see the skyline. As I got older, I'd go downtown with friends and still always got that feeling of excitement, when I crossed Bloor. Maybe I was just a brave little kid but I was never afraid to wonder around Yonge Street, even at night. It never felt scary, in fact it was quite thrilling, even into my 20's when I started going to bars and clubs.

Hell, I still love walking all around downtown and I feel no apprehension going anywhere, even places like Regent Park or Sherbourne Street. I feel very safe walking on Yonge Street and I would hate to see it become overly gentrified, homogenized and lined with your typical mall retail. Toronto is well known to have a good percentage of quirky, independent stores and we need to keep that advantage. Why destroy the independent vibe of the city, just to provide more of what every other city already has? That makes no sense to me. Nobody is going to come shop here if we offer Walmarts, Targets and The Gap. Franchises are destroying NYC. It's slowly losing it's quirky, unique, independent stores and restaurants and becoming one big mall of the same franchises we see everywhere. I was so disappointed on my last trip. I hope that doesn't happen here, to that extent. If it does, I'll just stop shopping.

As for the Sams sign, I don't think it has to go on the Ryerson Building but Ryerson must be forced to repair the sign and keep it on Yonge Street. Dundas Square would be a great location. It certainly would be an improvement to Metropolis, if the city could have it put there. It needs to be on the street where its neon lights can light up Yonge Street again!

 

[jje1000]

Your opinion isn't as unpopular as you might think. Yonge is down right embarrassing, and the sooner it is completely reimagined and cleaned up, the better. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, "heritage" designation should be an exception (that is; to denote an "exceptional" building), rather than the norm. We can't just label half of Yonge as "heritage," because that would make us complacent (incidentally, complacency seems like a perfect descriptor of someone as afraid of change as Adma).

Heritage designators can also be used to preserve the built form of an area. I'd much rather we continue down the path of more Five St. Josephs that aim to preserve the Yonge Street frontage rather than end up with another Bay Street.

 

[adma]

Your opinion isn't as unpopular as you might think. Yonge is down right embarrassing, and the sooner it is completely reimagined and cleaned up, the better. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, "heritage" designation should be an exception (that is; to denote an "exceptional" building), rather than the norm. We can't just label half of Yonge as "heritage," because that would make us complacent (incidentally, complacency seems like a perfect descriptor of someone as afraid of change as Adma).

Well, better that so-called "complacency" than your "diseased street-fronting townhouses" pidgin obtuseness.

 

[adma]

Obviously, I wasn't serious about Yonge looking exactly like a Newmarket strip mall. A bit of an overreach on my part.

The change in the Yonge/Dundas area is inevitable. Chain stores, condos, and modern projects lining up Yonge Street will happen in such a prime location of the city. I know my opinion is unpopular, but I'm glad they are constructing stellar projects on Yonge Street like the Ryerson SLC that can clean up this street, as "generic" as Yonge Street will become. There is a reason why I avoid the area.

Yet funnily enough, you didn't address my point about "old buildings". Which is another way of my saying: you don't throw out babies with the bathwater.

But then again, if your particular 18-22 cohort is part of some new suburbanized generation (well, indicated by the implied out-of-townness of your friends) which really puts *no* value to older urban or even suburban fabric whatsoever--perhaps in part because, in our high-tech age, it'd strike you as akin to clinging to typewriters and rotary phones--well, no wonder. (And the mentality plays itself out in the McMansioning of Toronto's postwar burbs, or older affluent zones like Forest Hill or Lawrence Park--by comparison, up to the 80s or so, new buyers of older homes tended to "leave well enough alone". Then again, we still used typewriters and rotary or at least cord phones then.)

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Agreed, Yonge isn't a prime spot for cool indie shops like say Queen west. There's mostly generic overpriced gift shops, and it is DEAD on weekend evenings. Any tourist on Yonge on a saturday night will get the impression that Toronto has NOTHING to offer. Hopefully the new residents in these condo towers will add some life to the strip.

Indie shops are disappearing quick on Queen West, head out to West Queen West for indie shops and galleries.
Yonge Street (save for Gerrard to perhaps as far as Queen St) is dead for a reason, there's nothing to do at night anymore. The late night book shops, record shops and arcades are gone. The pubs and music venues are gone. The cinemas are gone. And so went the restaurants. Might as well hang out around Matrix at CityPlace.