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Sam's Sign and the Yonge Street Heritage Zeitgeist

Your opinion isn't as unpopular as you might think. Yonge is down right embarrassing, and the sooner it is completely reimagined and cleaned up, the better. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, "heritage" designation should be an exception (that is; to denote an "exceptional" building), rather than the norm. We can't just label half of Yonge as "heritage," because that would make us complacent (incidentally, complacency seems like a perfect descriptor of someone as afraid of change as Adma).

Just how would designating the half of Yonge deserving of heritage designation (notwithstanding your interpretation of what heritage should be) result in complacency? Is restoring the heritage facade and selective, sensitive densification "complacent"? Painting the view that there is more than individual buildings worth preserving over wholesale, carte blanche redevelopment is complacent and "anti-change" is intellectual dishonesty (let's put aside the worth of redevelopment projects aside, even).

AoD
 
Your opinion isn't as unpopular as you might think. Yonge is down right embarrassing, and the sooner it is completely reimagined and cleaned up, the better. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, "heritage" designation should be an exception (that is; to denote an "exceptional" building), rather than the norm. We can't just label half of Yonge as "heritage," because that would make us complacent (incidentally, complacency seems like a perfect descriptor of someone as afraid of change as Adma).

The problem with Yonge isn't its built form so much as it is an identity crisis. Yonge Street just doesn't know what it is anymore, so to speak, while other areas of the city have eclipsed it in terms of coolness factor or liveliness. Who knows though, Yonge Street could be 'rediscovered' at some point by a younger generation in a hip, slightly retro ironic way?

Regardless, I do agree that Yonge could use some spiffing up, and there are certainly some garbagey buildings here and there that could be replaced with new sleek tall buildings, no question... but as Adma says, let's not toss out the baby so quick. There's a lot in the built form here that works well, or that could be improved through 5ive-type development schemes.

Yonge Street just needs to reinvent itself for the on-line era, find its mojo again!
 
Tewder:

The funny thing is - the garbage-y buildings along Yonge invariably belong to two or three categories - 1. Clearly modern redevelopments 2. historical structures that had been "improved" through EIFS and 3. poorly maintained heritage buildings.

Personally, I think that as areas on both sides of Yonge get intensified, the value of a low-scale throughfare will be increasingly valued - and if it is coupled with significant investments to the public realm (widened sidewalks, plantings, etc), I can see the street operating as a great quasi-public open space.

AoD
 
AoD is right on the mark; you don't create a new area from scratch when you've got older buildings that if cleaned up, would be beautiful. Yonge Street can be much stronger making USE of its existing heritage than replacing it altogether. A mix of developments like Five, along with the <occasional> all-new development like the Ryerson SLC, would be ideal.

Improving the public realm is one way to hopefully jumpstart that process; the Celebrate Yonge event brought improved business numbers to the area for its duration, and also spurred many Downtown Yonge storeowners to make new investments and improvements to their buildings/storefronts/etc.
 
Your opinion isn't as unpopular as you might think. Yonge is down right embarrassing, and the sooner it is completely reimagined and cleaned up, the better. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, "heritage" designation should be an exception (that is; to denote an "exceptional" building), rather than the norm. We can't just label half of Yonge as "heritage," because that would make us complacent (incidentally, complacency seems like a perfect descriptor of someone as afraid of change as Adma).

Among those who matter, yes it is.

(adma: 'pidgin obtuseness' - brilliant)
 
Incidentally, if we want to approximate what's deceptively labelled a "Newmarket strip mall" scenario, just look at the blockfront right across from Gould (and Snohetta): virtually everything's one form or another of "mall/chain retail" (Le Chateau, American Apparel, 7-11, the Panera and Pizza Pizza bookends), and except for John Lyle's Thornton-Smith (i.e. Salad King's present home) and the Elm frontage of Pizza Pizza, nothing presently registers as "old" or "heritage". And from a raw retail/street-life perspective, that's actually a "plus", i.e. almost nothing left registers as shabby or grimy or dicey--by default, it's the most "vital" blockfront remaining here, in that 18-22 suburbanites can patronize the retail without feeling they're at risk of catching cooties. (More so than even at nearby Metropolis and Atrium on Bay, in fact--which one might justifiably argue as a case for main streets over malls.)

And yet, there's "something missing". Though that may be lost on those who want to brush off any "Yonge Street" mythos as boomer and pre-boomer nostalgic piffle that's totally lost on and irrelevant to them.

Oh, and incidentally, re the shabbiness of the Yonge Street Strip, there's another little-cited yet critical factor which may explain a lot yet would also prove extraordinarily socio-politically difficult to dislodge: the Yonge Street Mission, maybe with an assist from Covenant House nearby. (Though the kkgg school of tinpot-dictatorship urbanism might figure some way to eugenically expel or otherwise "disappear" inconvenient human eyesores such as street youth.)
 
This building is going to be massive.

Oh, and incidentally, re the shabbiness of the Yonge Street Strip, there's another little-cited yet critical factor which may explain a lot yet would also prove extraordinarily socio-politically difficult to dislodge: the Yonge Street Mission, maybe with an assist from Covenant House nearby. (Though the kkgg school of tinpot-dictatorship urbanism might figure some way to eugenically expel or otherwise "disappear" inconvenient human eyesores such as street youth.)

I'd be one for openly advocating the relocation of the Youth drop-in centre in a heartbeat. The kids require attention by discussing their latest problem loud so that every passerby can hear every word, constant streams of profanities, fights, they purposely block the sidewalk, create a wall of cigarette smoke, spit all over the sidewalk - it would be great to see the centre relocated.
 
This building is going to be massive.



I'd be one for openly advocating the relocation of the Youth drop-in centre in a heartbeat. The kids require attention by discussing their latest problem loud so that every passerby can hear every word, constant streams of profanities, fights, they purposely block the sidewalk, create a wall of cigarette smoke, spit all over the sidewalk - it would be great to see the centre relocated.

+1

I don't understand how the Yonge Street Mission gets donations. I don't think it does any worthwhile work. Nothing but a place for high-school dropouts to hang-out during the day. It's conveniently located next to the welfare office for those on student welfare. Likewise Covenant House around the corner. Why would anyone give donations to this place? Covenant House was founded by a New York Priest in the 1980's who was exposed as a major chickenhawk. You would think that that would be the end of Covenant House but it exists to this day? Yonge Street Mission and Convenant House are nothing but crime incubators in my opinion.
 
I know someone who worked at Yonge Street Mission and you can be assured they did and do important work. A great way to incubate crime would be to ~get rid~ of the Yonge Street Mission.
 
+1

I don't understand how the Yonge Street Mission gets donations. I don't think it does any worthwhile work. Nothing but a place for high-school dropouts to hang-out during the day. It's conveniently located next to the welfare office for those on student welfare. Likewise Covenant House around the corner. Why would anyone give donations to this place? Covenant House was founded by a New York Priest in the 1980's who was exposed as a major chickenhawk. You would think that that would be the end of Covenant House but it exists to this day? Yonge Street Mission and Convenant House are nothing but crime incubators in my opinion.

I volunteer at the YSM, and indeed they do good work. A lot of troubled youth have been helped by their programs. Sure some of them may look scary to fresh suburbanite eyes, and yes an obnoxious few give the place a bad reputation, but don't dismiss the Mission's work on baseless assumptions and misjudgement.
 
On the topic at hand, we're talking white vs. black - there's no grey area here.



Now it's been probably 20 years, but when I used to drive to Stouffville, sometimes through Markham, (my dad had his business in Stouffville from the early 70's to mid 90's) both towns had a rather nice, interesting mix of older surviving buildings in the central area of their main streets. I hope it hasn't changed that much.

Markham's Main Street is alive and doing well, quite nicely preserved too. Stouffville on the other hand has struggled to attract and retain a good mix of businesses along Main Street. The decline was especially noticeable when the Wal-Mart Smart Centre was put in on the edge of town a few years ago. Now the most "happening" spot in Stouffville is the Boston Pizza; it actually has a waiting list some nights. Main is trying to bounce back, but it's still pretty sad to witness.
 
I volunteer at the YSM, and indeed they do good work. A lot of troubled youth have been helped by their programs. Sure some of them may look scary to fresh suburbanite eyes, and yes an obnoxious few give the place a bad reputation, but don't dismiss the Mission's work on baseless assumptions and misjudgement.

Peepers doesn't believe in opinions based on data or fact, however. He seems to base his beliefs and politics around his gut feelings on various subjects, which as many of us know, is very dangerous. Don't worry about convincing him.

That's great that you volunteer there. I should consider that as I've been looking for a new place to get involved with community volunteer work.
 
don't dismiss the Mission's work on baseless assumptions and misjudgement.

Take a look at the Quebec debate; it's clear that this is all peepers does. Not that I disagree with the relocation of the mission, but I certainly wouldn't call it useless.
 
Peepers doesn't believe in opinions based on data or fact, however. He seems to base his beliefs and politics around his gut feelings on various subjects, which as many of us know, is very dangerous. Don't worry about convincing him.

That's great that you volunteer there. I should consider that as I've been looking for a new place to get involved with community volunteer work.

It's definitely an eye opening experience. Having grown up in the cushy suburbs myself, you really learn a good deal about the lives that society often turns a blind eye to.

Not to get all preachy here though, haha.

Take a look at the Quebec debate; it's clear that this is all peepers does. Not that I disagree with the relocation of the mission, but I certainly wouldn't call it useless.

And I also wouldn't advocate for its relocation, but I do wonder how long the Mission can remain here. It definitely feels like a hold out so to speak, but with rising property values and development pressure it seems like it's only a matter of time.
 

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