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Rob Ford's Toronto

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wheeler98 said:
I don't understand how Tory and Chow just let that pass by without mentioning Dofo's public piss fight with Blair. Are these people conscious?
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Because Doug lies so fast and so furious that a person trying to counter his lies can't keep up.
They were still thinking about 5 lies back.
 
Chow continues to harp on about how much tunnelling is needed for SmartTrack, how it will turn onto Eglinton. John Tory: Why don't we ask Olivia how we're going to get the downtown relief line across the Don Valley?

:D
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Norm Kelly posted on Twitter that last election saw 16K people come out to advance voting.
In ONE DAY yesterday they had 28K.

Given the polling numbers, I suspect that bodes poorly for the Fords. But we'll know soon....
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Honest question: Why are people saying high advance turnout is bad news for the Fords? We don't know how they're voting. What am I missing?
 
salsa said:
Chow continues to harp on about how much tunnelling is needed for SmartTrack, how it will turn onto Eglinton. John Tory: Why don't we ask Olivia how we're going to get the downtown relief line across the Don Valley?

:D
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Drives me crazy.
SmartTrack is half-assed in several respects - the financing, particularly, though the core idea of using existing GO is a smart one (and one the province is already working on).

But it's absurd to ask a mayoral candidate the sort of details that wouldn't be determined until an EA process.
Arguably, the whole problem is mayoral candidates thinking its their job to design transit plans (I don't think it is - that's what Metrolinx is for) but if they are, seems really lame to keep pounding the guy on one intersection. Is he expected to produce station designs too, so she can hammer him about his choice of tile?

Best answer, if I was Tory: "I'll tell you the truth, Olivia, I'm not sure right now. This is a broad sketch of my plan and once I bring it to council, we will ask staff for a detailed reports about the options for implementing and then undertake an extensive environmental assessment project to find the optimal route and to get the best bang for our buck. So I don't know precisely how that turn will be made or how much tunneling there will be - that's why the city and Metrolinx employ engineers - but I can tell you, unequivocally, that we will not be bulldozing the Mount Dennis neighbourhood; the goal here is to make it a better place, with better access to downtown so, yes, some details need to be worked out but not doing harm to this neighbourhood is a prime consideration in any future planning. Can we move on now?"

Cooper said:
Honest question: Why are people saying high advance turnout is bad news for the Fords? We don't know how they're voting. What am I missing?
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Partly, yes, it's a question of a "happy electorate," and I think it's clear some of these numbers are due to the current high level of civil discourse. But it's mostly bad for the Fords because of demographics. The people who turn out least are more likely to be younger people, in apartments etc. Middle-class, middle-aged people are more likely to vote. I'm sure someone else can speak to this more specifically but that's the gist. Now, it's a sad side effect of the Fords that many of the people they speak for feel sincerely excluded and we do need to bring them in to the conversation. BUT, cynically, they are least likely to come out and vote and in this instance, that's a good thing.
 
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PinkLucy said:
People seriously believe that anyone (other than Rob) could be worse than Doug? Give your heads a shake.
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Depends on what one means as worse.

In terms of quality, embarrasment, and general ineptitude - yes, Ford would be the worse mayor.

However much of this is because Tory will actually work better with council to push through his agenda - while not quite as blighted as Ford's - it is still right wing.

So generally, one could easily see that the overall situation would be worse under Tory than Ford - who is likely to accomplish much substantive.
 
SFO said:
Absolutely not cool. You gotta be kidding me, as Thing 1 and Thing 2 would say. It would be a nightmare.

But the dude's right. The real opposition to the Fords has been spotty at best, IMO, because too many people have been OK with waiting out the clock. If Doug gets elected, those people will be forced to say, "Ok, this isn't ending" and mount serious opposition. I do believe this is true: Doug would be under constant scrutiny, likely facing an opnely hostile council, not to mention his uncanny ability to fuck up everything he touches. He would be as much a marginalized figurehead as Rob ended up, and Council would conduct its business with no regard for his so-called agenda.

John Tory, on the other hand, may actually be able to get some stuff pushed through. And what's on his agenda? The Scarborough subway and SmartTrack, aka "flushing money down the toilet" and "betting Toronto's future on a high-risk loan." One or the other would be bad enough, but both? We've really heard very little else but platitudes. For all these reasons, yeah, Tory is looking like the worse choice in some ways.
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I disagree. How is having Doug as mayor going to deliver fewer decisions that you don't like? You'll still have the Scarborough extension. Doug's plans for funding any further transit develop is utter fantasy. Plus, his subway obsession means he'll try to stop everything — everywhere. And so what if Tory's FIT financing doesn't work. You plug the gap by raising taxes, which is exactly how we fund these thing anyway.

I'm not voting John Tory for mayor, but I'd take him over Doug in a heartbeat. We need an adult in the mayor's office, not a petulant fart.
 
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