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Rob Ford's Toronto

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picard102 said:
So if he declared a state of emergency, the power would magically come on? Despite the insistence of city and hydro staff that it wouldn't make anything happen differently then it is already?
Or is this just another easy soundbite to spew?
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I'm starting to agree with you on this. I utterly despise Ford and virtually everybody that still supports him. But I'm not sure that harping on the "He didn't declare an emergency so he's an awful, incompetent Mayor!!!" is really very useful. Particularly now that consensus seems to be it would have changed virtually nothing. There are plenty of things to attack Ford for but this just doesn't seem to be one of them.
 
sno man said:
Go out and have a look at some of the areas still without power. Try *any* street in the older part of Willowdale. Empress Ave. for one, now that North York Center station has it's power back, you can get there too...
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Agreed. But what does declaring an emergency actually do? By virtually every account right now - nothing.
 
TOperson said:
Given the how the ice storm and the heavy rains & flooding back in July (and the horror shows of Sandy and Katrina) have been handled, I think that is the real lesson: expect a 3rd rate response, assume you are on your own. The emergency-preparedness info does say to be always be prepared to cope with a 72-hour period without electricity, water, etc, and people need to take that seriously. Not that everyone will, but it would help if more did.
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Yep. Just really pissed off. I was unlucky enough to be rushed to the hospital that day in July, too. It wasn't fun.

If we do experience a true catastrophe I have no faith in the decision makers. I will be prepared for the next "emergency".
 
DeathSilver said:
You quoted half my message...typical. What would it cost to call one?
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What would it cost to call one anytime it rains? I'm more inclined to go with what city, and hydro, staff are recommending, rather than spite filled vitriol on the internet.


sno man said:
Go out and have a look at some of the areas still without power. Try *any* street in the older part of Willowdale. Empress Ave. for one, now that North York Center station has it's power back, you can get there too...
Click to expand...

I don't have power or heat yet either. Doesn't mean it's an emergency.
 
mrtinfoilsocket said:
I'm starting to agree with you on this. I utterly despise Ford and virtually everybody that still supports him. But I'm not sure that harping on the "He didn't declare an emergency so he's an awful, incompetent Mayor!!!" is really very useful. Particularly now that consensus seems to be it would have changed virtually nothing. There are plenty of things to attack Ford for but this just doesn't seem to be one of them.
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Disagree. We needed ALL the help we could get. Ford and co did not think this was an emergency but then use words like "catastrophe" to describe the situation? We needed the extra help. It's not about turning the power on. It's about aiding the citizens of this city. No cops were directing traffic (could have used some extra man power). "warming stations" became available a day later (could have used some extra man power). So many trees completely blocking streets that were untouched (could have used some extra man power). To say there was no need to treat this as an emergency is ignorant IMO.

Lulz at extra reinforcements not changing anything. As if the city didn't bumble through this whole thing.

The funniest thing about all of this is in a couple weeks it will be back to business as usual. We won't learn shit from this and bumble through the next "catastrophe".
 
picard102 said:
What would it cost to call one anytime it rains? I'm more inclined to go with what city, and hydro, staff are recommending, rather than spite filled vitriol on the internet.




I don't have power or heat yet either. Doesn't mean it's an emergency.
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This is why we won't learn from this. People letting the city and co off the hook.
 
TheKingEast said:
Disagree. We needed ALL the help we could get. Ford and co did not think this was an emergency but then use words like "catastrophe" to describe the situation? We needed the extra help. It's not about turning the power on. It's about aiding the citizens of this city. No cops were directing traffic (could have used some extra man power). "warming stations" became available a day later (could have used some extra man power). So many trees completely blocking streets that were untouched (could have used some extra man power). To say there was no need to treat this as an emergency is ignorant IMO.

Lulz at extra reinforcements not changing anything. As if the city didn't bumble through this whole thing.

The funniest thing about all of this is in a couple weeks it will be back to business as usual. We won't learn shit from this and bumble through the next "catastrophe".
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I think you're missing the point. I completely agree this should have been treated with the utmost urgency - all the reinforcements we could get etc. etc. Everything you just said. But from everything I've read now that has NOTHING to do with "declaring an emergency".

If you think the response was mismanaged generally then that's fine - I even somewhat agree. But that's a completely different problem from whether or not the Mayor gave this the technical label of "emergency".
 
picard102 said:
I don't have power or heat yet either. Doesn't mean it's an emergency.
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For you, maybe not. For some 80+ year old bitty without someone looking out for her... For someone trapped in an apartment without even water because the pumps don't work either... not everyone is equally able to cope, and *the city* should be doing more for the more vulnerable, instead of booking for a hotel room or camping out in front of their gas fireplace.
 
casita said:
In the dark! :D

Not quite like Winston Churchill during the London Blitz, or Mayor Giuliani after 9/11, but for the more gullible of our voters, he's the next best thing.
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I know you're having a laugh, but Churchill v Ford?
Like comparing apples to rifles.
 
mrtinfoilsocket said:
Agreed. But what does declaring an emergency actually do? By virtually every account right now - nothing.
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You are probably right. If one were to be called it would have had to be done earlier. Now things are looking like they are not getting worst, so perhaps it is not needed. If they do, for example the wind picking up, snow, it is mistake to not have called one. Love it that the Mayor has postponed the next update to tomorrow at 11AM when the coldest night is upon Toronto. I guess the big guy wants to enjoy his Xmas since his power is back on.
 
sno man said:
For you, maybe not. For some 80+ year old bitty without someone looking out for her... For someone trapped in an apartment without even water because the pumps don't work either... not everyone is equally able to cope, and *the city* should be doing more for the more vulnerable, instead of booking for a hotel room or camping out in front of their gas fireplace.
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But why does one have to "declare a state of emergency" to do the "more" of which you speak. The two aren't linked. Declaring an emergency doesn't magically help anybody or change anything from my understanding.

The lack of "more" might very well be caused by crappy management and a poorly planned response - but it's not because the Mayor didn't "declare a state of emergency". (Although ultimately he's still to blame)

The media spent yesterday trying to pin this on Ford. They tried to nail down exactly what was NOT HAPPENING or being made more difficult due to Ford's reluctance to declare an emergency. In the end they didn't really come up with anything and the conclusion generally seemed to be it would just be a formality at this point.

Of more concern to me was that according to (the media's) sources the Mayor was out of contact with staff through much of Sunday morning and was only briefed minutes before the press conference. THAT'S the real scandal here.
 
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picard102 said:
What would it cost to call one anytime it rains? I'm more inclined to go with what city, and hydro, staff are recommending, rather than spite filled vitriol on the internet.


Right....what we have going on now is just a little rain.

I don't have power or heat yet either. Doesn't mean it's an emergency.
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Glad you are OK. Perhaps some of the 300k-500k citizens don't feel the same? You seem like a selfish SOB.
 
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