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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Protests still have their place - even if it did nothing else, I'd say the Occupy movement at least established the fact that a lot of people are not pleased about the unequal distribution of wealth that's come to be accepted as normal in these unhappy times - but when it comes to nailing the scumbag likes of Rob Ford, it can be counterproductive; the people saying that we shouldn't give him a chance at playing martyr are quite correct. "See what these commie pinko elitists are doin' to me now, folks? Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo!" (Cue the fake tears; maybe Rofo can start keeping an onion about his person at all times to rub in his eyes for convenient photo opportunities.)

The problem is, he's going to use this tactic no matter how much those of us opposed to him take the high road. He'll claim victimhood no matter what. If we do nothing to fuel this image, he (and his thug brother, as well as other remaining allies) will simply make shit up. We all know this.
 
@cgwalnut: re: The Occupy movement, I was under the impression that a lot more people related to that than to G20 protests (not just T.O.'s but previous ones too). Maybe more in NYC than here, saw a lot of people in suits and stuff (not just dreadlocked protestor types) joining in & showing support (even if only on their lunch breaks). I guess at this point you could argue that it didn't amount to anything but it did seem to resonate with a lot of people at the time.
 
So Gandhi and his salt marches achieved nothing?

I used to live in Vancouver, where people care a lot more about their city than Torontonians seem to do sadly. Protests in Vancouver wwould always have a lot more than 1000 people, especially if it were such an egregious affair as the Ford affair.
I went down to Seattle in 1999 for the WTO, and there the protest DID INDEED work. The talks got shut down.

Non violent direct action can encompass many things: general strikes, wild cat strikes, other strikes, work-to-rule, occupations, boycotts. It is about people empowering themselves. It has been used with much success all over the world.

Unfortunately, people in Toronto are very apathetic. Anyone who is willing to overcome that has my support.

For cultural change to happen, there needs to be enough numbers, a 'critical mass'. Non violent direct action educates a populace in an 'apathetic stupor'. If people get angry, so what? At least that anger will help them move out of the 'same old same old' routine.
We need teachers, journalists, honest politicians, EVERYONE working together, to educate and inform.
The ways to educate and inform can take a myriad of forms. Demonstrations are only one way of doing things.

I totally disagree with the harsh judgement that people are demonstrating because they are egotistical. Most people are there because they care, and they are not lazy!

Again, I would invite anyone who is critical of people who are actually doing things to get rid of Ford, to come up with better ideas, and then put them into action.
 
cgwalnut said:
no, no it doesn't.

how many years and decades have we been employing the same old "tactics" (again the use of the protest language by the in-crowd - tactics, direct action, the spectacle etc...). did it work against Harris? nope. his reign ran its usual course and the Liberals have basically carried on the tradition.
the average, middle class, middle aged, non-political people are those who vote (strangely). these forms of protest turn them off - IMMENSELY. you are not going to wake them out of their apathetic capitalist stupor by banging some pots and putting on a puppet show. you are only angering them and pleasuring yourselves.

I was in the G20 and slept in Occupy and with observation and time I learned that these methods do not work and will not work. it was fun, a hell of a lot of fun, but that doesn't get results. I realized it was a lot more about the buzz of the scene and a feeling of belonging to something than anything else.

new ideas are needed. new, adult ideas that aren't alienating.

do you ever wonder why with so much "momentum" the protest numbers never really crack 1,000? that's your base, it's not growing (replenished every school year - but not growing) and it's weak.

the true people getting stuff done, educating and changing minds are the journalists, writers, teachers and, a very few, politicians. and they don't like to touch these protests with a ten foot pole because they're chidish and self serving. they are too busy ACTUALLY doing something as opposed to getting their face out there and filling their egos for an afternoon.

and, educating children? come on. they and their parents are their for a fun family memory and some cotton candy. and you're going to take that away from them?
that's not how you get allies.
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I think protests have their place and their uses, but would be less alienating to mainstream people if the protestors looked more mainstream themselves. I know - it's superficial, but image matters in this culture. So the piercings, tattoos, weird hair & clothes - all that needs to be toned down. And, as you rightly point out, the protests must be connected to day-in-day-out activities to educate people, squeeze politicians and so on. Progressive movements are in disarray these days.
 
TOperson said:
I think protests have their place and their uses, but would be less alienating to mainstream people if the protestors looked more mainstream themselves. I know - it's superficial, but image matters in this culture. So the piercings, tattoos, weird hair & clothes - all that needs to be toned down. And, as you rightly point out, the protests must be connected to day-in-day-out activities to educate people, squeeze politicians and so on. Progressive movements are in disarray these days.
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Rather than restrict the right of people to be able to freely express who they are in the way that they look, we need more people who ARE mainstream to actually care, and to come out to demo's.
 
newearthling said:
Rather than restrict the right of people to be able to freely express who they are in the way that they look, we need more people who ARE mainstream to actually care, and to come out to demo's.
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I didn't say anything about restricting. They can wear what they like, and accept the consequences.
 
[video=youtube;zmRPP2WXX0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRPP2WXX0U[/video]

I was young when it happened, but I still remember seeing all of these people gathered together, tearing down the wall that had separated their country and their families. It was so powerful. This 'protest' was heard around the world that day!
Metaphorically speaking, Rob Ford has been building his own wall separating the burbs from downtown. Are we going to let him stand atop it, laughing while it grows longer and taller? Or are we going to tear it down?
People need to actually get off their asses, and show that they care about Toronto, for this city to get back on track.
 
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TOperson said:
I didn't say anything about restricting. They can wear what they like, and accept the consequences.
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We booed him two years ago at the same event! Ahead of our time.

This must be done. Any booing will take no more than a minute. If not, then you are endorsing his behaviour. Stop being so Canadian!
 
TOperson said:
I didn't say anything about restricting. They can wear what they like, and accept the consequences.
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You said they had to tone it down. That seemed like a restriction to me.
We all have to accept the consequences if they are the only ones who care enough to protest something that is wrong.
My point is we need more of those "non-pierced, non-tatooed, non-weird-hair people".
The freaks don't have to do anything differently, including not toning themselves down.
The so-called normal people need to start showing up.
 
Frustrating trying to get momentum eh. I think it's a great idea and hope there is decent turnout. These things do work. The last rally was, in my opinion, very successful and made a difference. Small things count. Ford needs constant reminding we are not with him and we aren't going to let him sweep this under the carpet.
NYCBoy2305 said:
We booed him two years ago at the same event! Ahead of our time.

This must be done. Any booing will take no more than a minute. If not, then you are endorsing his behaviour. Stop being so Canadian!
Click to expand...
 
NYCBoy2305 said:
We booed him two years ago at the same event! Ahead of our time.

This must be done. Any booing will take no more than a minute. If not, then you are endorsing his behaviour. Stop being so Canadian!
Click to expand...

Haha good point! Every crowd regardless of the city boos Gary Betman every year when he comes out to present the Stanley Cup; doesn't take away from the winning team's celebration.
 
What is "mainstream" and "normal" though?

To me "normal" are space cadet junglists who love staying up til sunrise as well as the wealthiest among us (because of my work). To me "normal" is not what it may be to others.
Very ambiguous terminology.

I'm all for shouting down the Terroriser of York at every opportunity (not to mention I wish someone would bomb his house with graff), but I'm a bit anxious about the blowback from tonight.
 
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