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Rob Ford's Toronto

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evvabeing said:
dear-u-s-customs-and-border-protection

http://warrenkinsella.com/2013/11/dear-u-s-customs-and-border-protection/
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Everyone: I got a kick out of reading Warren Kinsella's open letter to the Detroit/Windsor US and Canada border
officers to be on the lookout for one Rob Ford - in particular by US CBP on entry to Detroit - and I will add that
it would be a form of poetic justice if Rob Ford - upon returning to Canada gets the third degree by the CBSA or
even gets turned away at the border not being able to return - then becoming Detroit's permanent(?) problem perhaps...
This one could be a doozie...

LI MIKE
 
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if you feel you must do something (and I understand the need/want/urge) think about a silent shaming. turning of backs, some sort of clothing/colour solidarity - something. something new, creative and respectful. no megaphones, no chants and no damn puppets.
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Seconded. Save the heckling for "grown up" events; I don't want to have to explain anything to my 4 y/o. Just don't clap and/or turn your back on the bugger.
 
kbdid said:
Seconded. Save the heckling for "grown up" events; I don't want to have to explain anything to my 4 y/o. Just don't clap and/or turn your back on the bugger.
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Agreed. Let Ford and his ilk be the ones who take the cheap shots and employ the blunt, crude tactics. You rarely regret taking the high road.
 
cgwalnut said:
I have to chime in about the "cavalcade of boos" and savetoronto:

don't do it. it's not the place for this sort of thing (a lovely family event) and only turns Ford into the martyr he wants to look like. the middle (which ford has lost already) will look on at this with disgust and maybe they'll start to have some sympathy for, and solidarity with, the guy. it will be written off as the same group of "professional protestors" disrupting yet another event (which, really, is true).

listen, the average person out there hates the circus, and the performers, that is the protesting crowd. it's profoundly annoying. I used to be a part of it and I grew to hate it. the same old chants, speakers, language and theatre. nothing new. it's preaching to the converted and just gives everybody involved a self serving collective adrenalin rush. it accomplishes zero and may actually have a negative effect.

two recent examples of great public protest i think would be a) the silent shaming of the college dean in California after the pepper spraying incident on campus during the occupy times a few years ago and b) city councils turning of their backs on ford just a couple of weeks ago. powerful stuff.

if you feel you must do something (and I understand the need/want/urge) think about a silent shaming. turning of backs, some sort of clothing/colour solidarity - something. something new, creative and respectful. no megaphones, no chants and no damn puppets.
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The turning of backs when (or if) Rob Ford speaks would be enough.
 
cgwalnut said:
I have to chime in about the "cavalcade of boos" and savetoronto:

don't do it. it's not the place for this sort of thing (a lovely family event) and only turns Ford into the martyr he wants to look like. the middle (which ford has lost already) will look on at this with disgust and maybe they'll start to have some sympathy for, and solidarity with, the guy. it will be written off as the same group of "professional protestors" disrupting yet another event (which, really, is true).


listen, the average person out there hates the circus, and the performers, that is the protesting crowd. it's profoundly annoying. I used to be a part of it and I grew to hate it. the same old chants, speakers, language and theatre. nothing new. it's preaching to the converted and just gives everybody involved a self serving collective adrenalin rush. it accomplishes zero and may actually have a negative effect.

two recent examples of great public protest i think would be a) the silent shaming of the college dean in California after the pepper spraying incident on campus during the occupy times a few years ago and b) city councils turning of their backs on ford just a couple of weeks ago. powerful stuff.

if you feel you must do something (and I understand the need/want/urge) think about a silent shaming. turning of backs, some sort of clothing/colour solidarity - something. something new, creative and respectful. no megaphones, no chants and no damn puppets.
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My (sarastic) point with the New Yorker cartoon exactly - booing protesters would look like yobs, at an event heavily attended by children, and the effect on the target of the protest would be, at the very, very, very most, an (in)sincere, (in)sincere, (in)sincere) apology to the crowd that "them lefties is ruining every buddy's Christmas (sniff, fake tear wiped away) - geez folks, the poor liddle kiddies, puppies, candy canes, kittens, and subways, subways, subways!".
 
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At least Save Toronto is organizing groups of people to make a statement about Ford. I agree with whomever said he needs to be booed everywhere he goes.
How many of you boo critics have actually done anything beside sign a petition or write a letter? Protestors and demonstrations are excellent for bringing attention to things those in power want swept under the rug.
We all heard the Fords basically say they were going to make this upcoming election a blood sport. To my perspective, there is no taking the 'high road' with these guys.
Kids need to learn about civics, and the responsibilities of being a citizen. You would have had to explain to them that the mayor smokes crack. This would be an excellent to explain to children that some citizens of Toronto actually care so much about the city that they are getting together to show the 'bad mayor that he needs to go.
We need to be more engaged, not less, using as many tactics as possible. Shaming works well in small groups, and in good light. In the dark, the significance of turned backs would be lost.
Being apathetic is what got us in this mess in the first place. Non violent direct action gets the goods.
 
Btw, Rob Ford in person is actually a decent human being. (Sober.) Says someone I know who's met him.
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For how long? Anyone can be pleasant for a few minutes or a few hours. Ted Bundy was apparently very charming. So was Paul Bernardo.
 
newearthling said:
At least Save Toronto is organizing groups of people to make a statement about Ford. I agree with whomever said he needs to be booed everywhere he goes.
How many of you boo critics have actually done anything beside sign a petition or write a letter? Protestors and demonstrations are excellent for bringing attention to things those in power want swept under the rug.
We all heard the Fords basically say they were going to make this upcoming election a blood sport. To my perspective, there is no taking the 'high road' with these guys.
Kids need to learn about civics, and the responsibilities of being a citizen. You would have had to explain to them that the mayor smokes crack. This would be an excellent to explain to children that some citizens of Toronto actually care so much about the city that they are getting together to show the 'bad mayor that he needs to go.
We need to be more engaged, not less, using as many tactics as possible. Shaming works well in small groups, and in good light. In the dark, the significance of turned backs would be lost.
Being apathetic is what got us in this mess in the first place. Non violent direct action gets the goods.
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Sorry, my 4 y/o was not apprised of the mayor's sh*tty habits, nor has she had "crack" explained to her. This is an event, unlike a council meeting, that doesn't focus on politics/civic responsibility and I think a big silent "whatever" to the mayor is appropriate. Gives him less fuel and being ignored would probably piss him off more than heckling.

I've signed petitions, attended protests etc. This isn't the venue for loud activism.
 
Yeah, because nothing sets a better example for children than a bunch of adults (?) standing around booing during a Christmas event. Thankfully only 15 people on Facebook have indicated that they'll be participating in this juevenile act. In reality, that number should be closer to five. I can't wait to see what other sophisticated tricks Savetoronto has up his sleeve. My guess is that it will involve something along the lines of eating crayons or smearing doo doo across the floor.
 
newearthling said:
Non violent direct action gets the goods.
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no, no it doesn't.

how many years and decades have we been employing the same old "tactics" (again the use of the protest language by the in-crowd - tactics, direct action, the spectacle etc...). did it work against Harris? nope. his reign ran its usual course and the Liberals have basically carried on the tradition.
the average, middle class, middle aged, non-political people are those who vote (strangely). these forms of protest turn them off - IMMENSELY. you are not going to wake them out of their apathetic capitalist stupor by banging some pots and putting on a puppet show. you are only angering them and pleasuring yourselves.

I was in the G20 and slept in Occupy and with observation and time I learned that these methods do not work and will not work. it was fun, a hell of a lot of fun, but that doesn't get results. I realized it was a lot more about the buzz of the scene and a feeling of belonging to something than anything else.

new ideas are needed. new, adult ideas that aren't alienating.

do you ever wonder why with so much "momentum" the protest numbers never really crack 1,000? that's your base, it's not growing (replenished every school year - but not growing) and it's weak.

the true people getting stuff done, educating and changing minds are the journalists, writers, teachers and, a very few, politicians. and they don't like to touch these protests with a ten foot pole because they're chidish and self serving. they are too busy ACTUALLY doing something as opposed to getting their face out there and filling their egos for an afternoon.

and, educating children? come on. they and their parents are their for a fun family memory and some cotton candy. and you're going to take that away from them?
that's not how you get allies.
 
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JustAnotherGuy said:
What this would suggest -- and I don't disagree -- is that anybody who adheres religiously to a received political ideology, regardless of where it lands on the political spectrum, effectively surrenders his or her capacity to think critically. They have chosen partisan engagement, which involves an antagonistic dynamic (us versus them) rather than critical thought.
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This is not true.

I was a liberal Catholic for years, but slowly brought into my worldview other beliefs. Buddhism, Paganism, Humanism; all to the point now that I answer the question of what my religion is with "my own".
It is ever malleable because rigidity of thought is the antithesis of self- progression.


It started really going weird when I wrote a paper atCarleton about the similarities and relationship between Christianity and Romanticism. Got an A+ on the paper and an A+ on my own self-reflection in my mind.

Well, that and the critical thinking and oratory courses.
Man, uni was good times.
 
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