Rob Ford's Toronto

[animatronic]

That is not ministerial responsibility. Ministerial responsibility means that a minister is responsible for everything that happens in the department he oversees. That mistakes made by deputy ministers/department are his responsibility and therefore he should be the one owning that responsibility even if the mistakes were made before he held the position.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/housepublications/publication.aspx?docid=1812721&file=33

And it's a Parliamentary rule, does not apply to municipal politics.

Ok, I was thinking along the lines of the broader concept of personal accountability - e.g., Maxime Bernier getting fired for leaving confidential documents at his girlfriend's house, Bev Oda being an all-round fuck up. It's also a bit silly that municipal politician get to act with impunity between elections while everyone else has party discipline to keep them in line.

 

[SFO]

I really wonder if this is a strategic move for DMW if he is indeed running: there's a negative buzz directed toward the other councillors and their wishy-washy stances on Ford (I think I even read this morning that Stintz has said she will not ask Ford to resign) and decided to go hard and highly visible as the "dragon slayer." Depending on how things go at the meeting tomorrow and its aftermath, that could work out well for him, I would imagine.

 

[Electrify]

I'm beginning to think that we need a Rob Ford subforum or something. This thread is so hyper you need to be obsessed to follow it now.

 

[ParkdalePetunia]

Ok, I was thinking along the lines of the broader concept of personal accountability - e.g., Maxime Bernier getting fired for leaving confidential documents at his girlfriend's house, Bev Oda being an all-round fuck up. It's also a bit silly that municipal politician get to act with impunity while everyone else has party discipline to keep them in line.

Unfortunately the Municipal act is poorly written and weak at best, and there are no constitutional measures/protections for municipal governments (a serious oversight on the part of those who wrote it). Good news is that Randy Hillier tabled a private members bill in the Ontario Legislature to try and institute recall legislation, bad news is that it won't be debated until spring.

And yeah, ministerial responsibility in Canada means a very specific thing. Personal accountability at the federal and provincial levels is also different than the municipal level because again people did not think about municipal governments when drafting the laws. The law is seriously short sighted when it comes to municipal government.

 

[SFO]

Four Ford fests next year? Ye Gods, the man's nothing more than a rampant egomaniac. And the two scumbags hawking the bobble-head dolls and t-shirts at City Hall - as if they have nothing better to do - and all "for charity," of course. They're honestly going to try and just brazen it all out, aren't they? And events are so fluid, the opposition against them so scattered and disorganized, the Fords' support base so fanatical, that we can't say with 100% certainty that they're not going to get away with it. Good God, do I hope the police are going to nail Rofo with with even worse stuff at some point down the line...but hopefully not too much longer.

I think the main issue is "events are so fluid"... I think it's not so much that the opposition is disorganized, but that every day it seems there are new revelations, expectations of more to come. Ford is 100% a moving target right now. Based on the events of Thursday, say, would you have guessed in a million years that today Ford would be signing bobbleheads in the Mayor's office foyer? Does anyone have a clue where this is all going or where to draw battle lines?

 

[newearthling]

I really wonder if this is a strategic move for DMW if he is indeed running: there's a negative buzz directed toward the other councillors and their wishy-washy stances on Ford (I think I even read this morning that Stintz has said she will not ask Ford to resign) and decided to go hard and highly visible as the "dragon slayer." Depending on how things go at the meeting tomorrow and its aftermath, that could work out well for him, I would imagine.

Yes, I agree. There is a vacuum in council leadership right now. DMW will come off as able to make decisions and lead.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

In that case, most reasonable people are simply not reasonable. It wouldn't matter what Rob Ford's connection to this whole mess was. His right to stay silent is absolutely paramount and no one should be pressuring him to abandon it. This is based on hundreds of years of tradition in British Common Law and lots of jurisprudence in the Canadian justice system regarding our Charter.

I have no issue with Rob Ford staying silent. I have an issue with Rob Ford not resigning as Mayor. He can stay as silent as he wants, as long as he doesn't at the same time try to continue as the head political figure of the city whose police force needs his aid.

 

[thisbusymonster]

The same protection - on paper. And besides, it's not so much so the question of the Charter but how the Municipal Act didn't necessarily foresee a circumstance such as this. To analogize - I don't believe Terrorists get to have a say the budget for CSIS or RCMP for the coming year, or have access to resources that can mobilize the population solely through his position and the official benefits offered thereof.

Council didn't insert itself into a police investigation - council demands the mayor account for his actions, which is a public revelation. He may well chose to avoid answering, but that speaks plenty and in and on itself.

AoD

If Council demands that any person forgo their Constitutional rights, the lot of them should step down.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

I have no issue with Rob Ford staying silent. I have an issue with Rob Ford not resigning as Mayor. He can stay as silent as he wants, as long as he doesn't at the same time try to continue as the head political figure of the city whose police force needs his aid.

I agree with you, but it's such an obvious answer that I think you're (okay, we're) being trolled.

 

[dforthandbview]

This thread begins with MetroMan saying in 2010 "As it's becoming increasingly inevitable that Rob Ford's opponents will fight amongst themselves and propel Ford into the Mayor's chair..."

God, I hope this doesn't happen again.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Its not just the police and the media doing surveillance. From up north, a report was filed after discovery that Rob Ford says he'll be marching in the Toronto Santa Claus parade:

Rob, you have been a naughty boy. Your name is definitely on Santa's naughty list. Yes, it has been checked twice. That means you will see a lump of coal in your Christmas stocking.
​

 

[typezed]

If Council demands that any person forgo their Constitutional rights, the lot of them should step down.

But not if they hang with criminals and have a connection to a murder that they refuse to answer questions about. No reason to step down for that.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Evil doesn't exist, it's a convenient way to label things and people you don't like. This is a story of politics, addiction, and mostly incompetent buffoonery. Rob Ford will face whatever legal consequences he has brought upon himself and he gets the same due process as everyone else in the mean time.

I think you completely missed the D&D reference...

Personally, given his many blowups and utter mismanagement, I think you have to go with Chaotic. Since even Chaotic Neutral gives him some benefit of the doubt, you'd think Chaotic Evil, but I don't think he's intentionally trying to lay waste to Toronto, he's just sort of stumbling there. So, Chaotic Neutral is my choice for the Mayor Ford monster. They'll have to update the Manual...

 

[errrm]

I wonder if that rule isn't counter-productive? I guess it gives councillors an incentive for dropping out of the mayor's race if they can't get traction, thus avoiding an over-crowded field. But it may also discourage some candidates from running at all.

Shouldn't there be as many clowns running as possible to water down the Ford voters?

 

[Silence&Motion]

Here is the vid of that dude getting the Rob Ford tattoo...
RIDICULOUS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTC3Rwg1m8Y

"Rob Ford! I my heart you're number two! Wait, not number two, number one!" The video provides a glimpse at some of the inhabitants of Ford Nation. Kind of reminds me of this Onion article back from the GW Bush era: Yee-Haw! My Vote Cancels Out Y'all's!:

Now, you probably waste a whole lotta good-fishin' Saturdays readin' yourself the papers, watchin' all the talk on the TV, and sittin' around thinkin' real hard about which way you gonna vote. Well, it's a real shame, then, ain't it, that all that time you spend in real careful considerin' don't count for nothin', once my vote runs y'all's right off the road.