ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
My post modern political philosophy class in undergrad killed any belief in democracy I had. It's a deeply flawed system.
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Rob Ford's Toronto
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My post modern political philosophy class in undergrad killed any belief in democracy I had. It's a deeply flawed system.
Foible
New Member
Hi UT, Long time lurker, first time poster here.
I have been thinking about this too. There were a lot of rumours about lawyers seeing copies, and who knows, those rumours may have been false. However, one plausible explanation is that the copies making the rounds didn't come from the Project Traveller raids, but were instead provided to a lawyer by a defendant. Weren't there rumours of the video being used as a bargaining chip with the crown? If this was the case the police would have known full well that copies were out there but wouldn't have one of their own.
If the police had the video for months and it had already made it's way into the legal system as evidence, I can't imagine Blair lying about it. It would be way to easy to catch him on that one.
I have been thinking about this too. There were a lot of rumours about lawyers seeing copies, and who knows, those rumours may have been false. However, one plausible explanation is that the copies making the rounds didn't come from the Project Traveller raids, but were instead provided to a lawyer by a defendant. Weren't there rumours of the video being used as a bargaining chip with the crown? If this was the case the police would have known full well that copies were out there but wouldn't have one of their own.
If the police had the video for months and it had already made it's way into the legal system as evidence, I can't imagine Blair lying about it. It would be way to easy to catch him on that one.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
ParkdalePetunia:
It should also have taught you that the alternatives can be that much worse.
AoD
It should also have taught you that the alternatives can be that much worse.
AoD
VTB
Active Member
Indeed!
Except for this:
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (from a Winston Churchill House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947)
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
re: Police
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...he_mayor_still_weigh_in_on_police_budget.html
Damn right on that score.
AoD
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...he_mayor_still_weigh_in_on_police_budget.html
Damn right on that score.
AoD
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Forget Ford, can Nunziata abandon us for the sake of everything even slightly reasonable?
pattycakes
Senior Member
I don't know, but it's a pretty big coincidence - woman missing - same address - 5 months ago I would have thought this was too crazy even for Ford. Not so much any more.
ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
Ah but Winston Churchill also said: "“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”
Thomas Jefferson: “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”
George Bernard Shaw: “Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.”
JFK: “The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.”
I agree there is no viable alternative at this time. I do believe that Democracy could be a workable system if with it there was a fair and equal economic system, and an education system that puts priority on civics and raising informed citizens. Unfortunately, with the way the world works today, Democracy results in uneducated people being manipulated by greedy people to further the ends of the capitalist class. I've lost faith in it.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
ParkdalePetunia:
That's why you have majority rule and minority rights - and also rules and regulations around the exercise of power. It is of course interesting that Rob Ford and his supporters tend not to be big on "rights" as well as "rules and regulations", for obvious reasons. To said individuals, I think a brief and punitive demonstration of life without those limiters would convert some minds very, very quickly.
AoD
That's why you have majority rule and minority rights - and also rules and regulations around the exercise of power. It is of course interesting that Rob Ford and his supporters tend not to be big on "rights" as well as "rules and regulations", for obvious reasons. To said individuals, I think a brief and punitive demonstration of life without those limiters would convert some minds very, very quickly.
AoD
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Ah, but you guys are talking about fake democracy. Proportional representation naturally leads to collaboration and consensus.
PS: Churchill was awesome.
PS: Churchill was awesome.
ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
I don't want to go on another Neo Liberalism rant, but suffice to say that this idea of individual responsibility, success existing in a vacuum, and the lack of care and consideration for others has a lot to do with the issues we face today. And unfortunately part of Neo Liberalism is cutting funding from things like public education which produces a less educated electorate which is easily manipulated allowing people like Ford et al to get into office and further erode the rights of the minority. But these people were elected, therefore it's democratic that they hold the power and can therefore further erode rights. Hence my issue with democracy.
ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
Truth. But with less and less voter turnout and more political parties, it's not actually majority rule, it's plurality rule.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
I'm going ahead and assuming your 'truth' also applies to my big-up of Churchill. 
Re: democracy
I'm somewhat in favour of compulsory voting. And entirely in favour of proportional rep. I vote Green; I need it.
Re: democracy
I'm somewhat in favour of compulsory voting. And entirely in favour of proportional rep. I vote Green; I need it.
Peepers
Banned
The bigger question - which the Star doesn't ask (or seem to care about) is why was Bill Blair investigating his boss? When it first became apparent that Ford was potentially involved in criminal activity why didn't Blair call in the OPP to take over the investigation? That was the only appropriate thing for Blair to do.
A few pages back I posted some curious information. I discovered that a John Blair (who looks a lot like Bill Blair) is the General Manager of GFL and before that GM of Keele North Recycling - i.e. he works for Romeo di Battista who owns the after-hours club (dismantled after the Star started to ask questions of the owner).
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/14268-Mayor-Rob-Ford-s-Toronto?p=778794#post778794
Is the Mr. Blair who is the General Manager of GFL the brother of Chief Blair? If so I can think of another reason why Blair should have turned this investigation over to the OPP!
ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
I'm going ahead and assuming your 'truth' also applies to my big-up of Churchill.
Re: democracy
I'm somewhat in favour of compulsory voting. And entirely in favour of proportional rep. I vote Green; I need it.
Compulsory voting with an informed electorate. Definitely proportional representation (although that does present other problems, I just feel that it's more favourable to the system we have today). And yes, it did apply to your big-up of Churchill
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