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Rob Ford's Toronto

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I'm in NYC for the week. When I left Metro man dropped the news of the wiretap which is why I periodically am checking the thread. Maybe it's easier for me to detect because now I only come on once a day for maybe 15mins but happy love has completely derailed this thread. No news but just a pointless debate with someone who doesn't even read the news.
 
First I'd just like to say that I started following this thread just after the crack video scandal was broken and I've found this thread a fun, interesting and (often) intelligent conversation of Toronto politics.

That being said I think the discussion with HaveLove shows that a number of people here don't understand the difference between circumstantial and direct (not "hard") evidence. Circumstantial evidence is valid evidence and is not inherently weaker than direct evidence; the difference is that circumstantial evidence requires an inference to connect it to commission of the crime whereas direct evidence connects the evidence to the crime directly. Now this might seem like it would mean circumstantial evidence is less reliable than direct evidence but when you look at the types of evidence that count as either circumstantial or direct it's obvious that in fact circumstantial evidence is often stronger than direct evidence. Look at forensic evidence such as fingerprints, ballistics or DNA evidence which are all examples of circumstantial evidence and they are all considered amongst the strongest evidence available in a court of law. So strong that they are often used to refute direct evidence, like that of mistaken/lying eye witnesses.

Editted to add: I'm not a lawyer but I do work in the legal field.

The important distinction is not between circumstantial and direct evidence but between evidence that corroborates and evidence that doesn't corroborate. And in the case of the Ford Crack video, the evidence - both the direct evidence of the three reporters who witnessed the video and the circumstantial evidence like Ford's erratic behaviour or Towhey being fired for asking Ford to get help or all the resignations from his office or Lisi & Price looking for the tape, etc. - when taken all together corroborates the idea that Ford has a substance abuse problem and the video exists.




I've lived most of my life in Scarborough and Ford's little extension to Scarborough Town Centre does little to nothing for the majority of the residents of Scarborough whereas the proposed LRT line (especially if it's extended to Malvern) reaches more of Scarborough and does a much better job of eliminating the lengthy bus rides you describe above. At the same time, neither the LRT plan nor the subway do a single thing for the people of southeast Scarborough trying to use transit to get downtown but only one is likely to hurt the chances for future solutions. The waste of an extra 500 million to 1 billion dollars on the subway option significantly reduces the chances of an extension of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT further along Eglinton East that would actually help the residents of southeast Scarborough get downtown faster and easier.

LRT is not a second rate technology and it is not streetcars. Many world-class cities (like Paris, Berlin & Boston) have LRT lines and so they are not an insult to Scarborough and they don't make Scarborough second class.

On the length of your journey from Middlefield/McNicoll to Union, I don't think I've ever tried it from around there but the Google maps directions for that trip suggest that in rush hour it takes about 1 hour and 16 minutes and going down to Kennedy Station isn't one of the suggested routes. The fastest is to take the 42 bus along McNicoll all the way to Finch Station and then straight down to Union from there which doesn't seem like that difficult a journey.

Thanks for posting this. It was a well reasoned and refreshingly non-emotional refutation of HaveLove's posts.
 
Yes, it is a good post but why bother responding to HaveLove at all? It just encourages him and others of a similar mind-set ...

It was just refreshing to read after what's been going on for the past few pages.

I think it's fine to post an initial well reasoned response and then follow up with more if the discourse remains intelligent. I'd agree though that when it degenerates into something like this that there's no point in responding further.
 
Can we please stop the trolling and personal attacks and concentrate on the topic? In that spirit, here is another data point:

A friend of mine works for one of the mainline media organizations and is on the Ford/Traveller investigative team (there are a lot of resources being poured into this by everyone). Ran into them a few days ago and they shared:

1. TPS does not have a copy of the video
2. Siad is believed to have stored at least one copy for safekeeping with a family member or friend
3. Project Traveler is not just an Etobicoke investigation. The gang had a downtown distribution channel under the cover of a legitimate retail operation, and that has relevance to the Ford side of the story

The info is second hand and I've left out some of the more specific details, so YMMV. Discuss.
 
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Can we please stop the trolling and personal attacks and concentrate on the topic? In that spirit, here is another data point:

A friend of mine works for one of the mainline media organizations and is on the Ford/Traveller investigative team (there are a lot of resources being poured into this by everyone). Ran into them a few days ago and they shared:

1. TPS does not have a copy of the video
2. Siad is believed to have stored at least one copy for safekeeping with a family member or friend
3. Project Traveler is not just an Etobicoke investigation. The gang had a downtown distribution channel under the cover of a legitimate retail operation, and that has relevance to the Ford side of the story

The info is second hand and I've left out some of the more specific details, so YMMV. Discuss.

Interesting information. As for the first point. This would directly contradict the info put out by Kinsella who said the video has been viewed by multiple defence attorneys as part of evidence disclosure.

If true, I wonder what Siad plans to do with the video. As the crown is unwilling to make a deal with him for it, does he attempt to sell it again through a proxy, hold on to it as insurance for his safety, or just release the thing?
 
Coming from within a City Councillor's office in the position to know: Karen Stintz is almost certainly running for Mayor and the Conservative machine who backed Rob Ford is increasingly gathering around Stintz. It looks like she'll be their official candidate with Ford going it alone with little money or organization. If there's going to be vote splitting, it's going to be on the right. This is going to be a walk in the park for Olivia Chow.

You might have noticed that there is little talk of any other left leaning candidate considering a run. They've mostly all been Right leaning: Karen Stintz, John Tory, Denzil Minnan-Wong, Michael Thompson. This supports the evidence that I've been seeing that for more than a year now, senior Conservative figures have been looking for an alternative to run and drop their support for Ford.

On the left, only Adam Vaughan and Shelley Carroll have been hinted at with the former never giving any indication whatsoever that he's thinking about running and the latter stubbornly ignoring advice from everybody around her to stay out of the race. Carroll is slowly coming to the rational conclusion that her dream of becoming Mayor is going to have to wait or not happen at all. She doesn't have the profile outside of City Hall to win an election, specially this one with so many big names.

It'll be Ford v Chow v Stintz v Tory v Minnan-Wong though the latter two might decide to stay out.
 
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Minnan-Wong and Thompson? Ford toadies? Really?

At least Stintz has demonstrated the capability for independent thought.
 
See the concern is Ford doesn't really represent the left or right ... rather ... blah (insert something random here) ... so his supporters aren't likely to lean toward either another left or right wing candidate. To me this bodes very well for Ford regardless of who he runs against, unless there is only 1 legitimate opposition candidate, making it a 1 on 1 race effectively.

So even Tory vs Ford vs Stinz (or Olvia) ... could easily go toward Ford with everyone else splitting the votes.
 
1. TPS does not have a copy of the video


Interesting information. As for the first point. This would directly contradict the info put out by Kinsella who said the video has been viewed by multiple defence attorneys as part of evidence disclosure.


These two things are not mutually exclusive. Once police hand evidence that they collected over to the Crown (who then disclose it to the defence), why would the police retain a copy?
 
That's what I asked in a follow up post. Though, I thought evidence was collected and stored by the police, not the crown.
 
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