Rob Ford's Toronto

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Rink Rat calling me an idiot lol, I did that when I was a teen dude, how old are you now, do you have a career or life plan, or do you plan to mooch of public funds by moving nets, shoveling snow, emptying garbage, and picking up tape out of dressing rooms for the rest of your life? You want to attack personal character by calling me an idiot, you should take a look at your life before doing so. Your job is meant for teenagers.

Just because I vote Ford as Mayor, does not mean I vote federal conservative, why is that a common conclusion. Did you guys not see the other 3 candidates last mayoral vote???

>>

With all due respect Tee, I am not a troll. Trolls attack people personally, or ignore what the person says and replies with completely different responses. I've been on topic my entire debate, there have actually been quite a few people trolling me because of my difference of opinion. I never said anything personal to anyone unless it was in response to their rude remark, in which yes I have made a couple snide remarks myself in response. I am far from a troll though, I'm sorry you don't agree with my point of view about a city-wide issue. I thought discussion was for both sides, not only one. If this topic was labeled "Mayor Rob Ford Crack Scandal" I wouldn't have replied to it at all and let the hate fest build there, but this is a general discussion about Ford where I happen to be at a difference of opinion at this point in time, please respect my point of view. I respect your point of view even though I don't believe it, so maybe do the same, have some love.

This was truly hilarious -- dude attacks me personally (based on my FORUM NAME, no less!), then states he's not a troll, because 'he doesn't attack people personally'(!) Amazing lack of self-awareness.

Dude -- go away. You've added nothing to the conversation, and you're annoying.

Back on point -- Q for the forum -- did other Mayors start campaigning as blatantly as Ford well before the election window? Did they get in trouble? The crap with his kids and the lying 'speech' were obviously campaign events. Can noone call him to task for them?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Canada's position is largely due to choices (some just lucky) by previous governments. The Cons' economic policy is to sell out our natural resources to anybody willing to pay, and to force more and more of the rest of us to work crappy jobs with few/no benefits and shit pay that don't even give the hours needed to support oneself. Economic disparity (and all the suffering that goes with it) is on the rise and both the Cons and Liberals (and now, the NDP) all adopt the same neoliberal outlook that supports the wholesale looting of the world's economy by ultra-wealthy sociopaths. The recession is part of an ongoing crisis that has not and will not end because that's what our leaders want, despite what the many Economic Action Plan ads we pay for and our corperate shill mainstream media have been telling us. The papers at least still have some decent investigative reporters regardless of the degree of their publication's political slant to go after relatively local thugs, like the Fords.

If you make less than 100k a year, there are no politicians in a position of power that view you as anything other as a resource to be sold or consumed, or convinced of their lies. Choosing any of these parties over another is at best an excersize in delaying the inevitible, but pretending that the Cons' economic policies have been "strong" for anything other than their pocketbooks is kind of... well, it's pretending. But most people are mislead into having these kinds of opinions by the aforementioned owned media because that's the narrative that suits them. That's why I don't really blame people who instantly misstrust the Ford crack story's truth, at least initially. Unfortunately it seems that skepticism doesn't extend to any other area of their lives, because they're willing to believe anything Team Ford says even when it flies completely in the face of established behaviour.

If Rob Ford was not captured on video smoking crack, then the first thing he should have done (and, I believe would have had this been the case, because seriously not even he would be that stupid, right?) would be to immediately say "I have never smoked crack, I don't smoke crack, and I'll take a blood or piss test right now to that effect." Then, the Star/Gawker would have been suitably shamed for making up such a crazy story and this all would have been wrapped up by the end of the first week.

Unfortunately, that never happened. Instead, Ford ran and hid while his attack-dog brother lashed out at anybody who dared to question them. And here we all, all this time later after mountains of supicious behaviour, mass firings of his staff, the revelation that most of the people Ford appears to associate with have run afowl of the law for hard drug and violence related offences, and of course Chief Bill Blair's utterly damning refusal to say wether the Mayor was being investigated by the police. Televised news has been doing a piss poor job of relating most of this information to people, but you'd have to be deliberately not paying attention or outright stupid to look at what's gone down and still somehow think Ford is just the victim of a conspiracy.

TR, IMHO, you just embarrassed yourself. I will have a hard time taking your opinions on Ford seriously from now on, because your view of federal politics is extremist. You can disagree with the Conservatives' government, but you cannot claim they've just 'been lucky' and smear all three mainstream political parties for little reason. Canada is well-governed, be it by Cons, Libs, or NDP. I know that might hurt to admit, but unfortunately it's the case.

 

[JWBF]

It's amazing how much things go sideways in this topic when it's a slow news week... even indulging immaturity, and no, I'm not discluding myself.

Trolls, just like pigeons, have well meaning people feed them, however, all that's left from good intensions is a huge quantity of toxic shit.

 

[adma]

Lol, I just looked at the wiki link. I'm sorry I'm not a group-thinker and can form my opinion, maybe one day you will think for yourself too.

Little blurb from your wiki and I can't help but think you are actually not human and you have just confirmed we live in a world with two kinds of people.

Y'know, anyone can claim to be "not a group-thinker and can form my opinion", however heinous the opinion (insert assorted Godwin-or-otherwise-violating metaphors here). Lots of those kinds of goofs on these here Internet message boards.

But seriously: as a lot of you know, I'm prone to "baiting" these pro-Ford-or-whatever types thusly.

And it looks like this time, I caught the big one. Y'know, someone who's not just defending on raw value-free "freedom" grounds, but who actually calls the heinously destructive POS that I posted *beautiful*.

Which, in a way, is like baiting a convicted abuser into saying "the bitch had it coming". BINGO...guilty. And of course, the convicted abuser might claim that his accusers are "not human", it was a group-think set-up, etc, etc....

 

[ThinkRicky]

TR, IMHO, you just embarrassed yourself. I will have a hard time taking your opinions on Ford seriously from now on, because your view of federal politics is extremist. You can disagree with the Conservatives' government, but you cannot claim they've just 'been lucky' and smear all three mainstream political parties for little reason. Canada is well-governed, be it by Cons, Libs, or NDP. I know that might hurt to admit, but unfortunately it's the case.

Canada has been comparatively well governed in the past, and we are certainly better off right now (if not very far behind) than our neighbours to the south. However, Canada cannot be well governed by a political entity which insists on turning us into a petro-state, harasses legitimate employment insurance claimants while refusing to persue billions in tax revenue hidden away overseas, muzzles our scientists when they arrive at conclusions that are inconvinent for the oil & gas industy and actively engages in massive voter suppression during a federal election, nor do I feel there is reason to stay positive about the future when the only other choices all shift in the same direction, differing only by a matter of degree.

I'm sorry that you feel that I have embarresed myself; I understand how I must sound (well, read) to someone who is fortunate enough to be spared the reality that far too many of your countrymen face. Surely then, you can at least appreciate on some level how abhorrent the current political culture is to me. Anyway, yeah sorry for the derail. MetroMan come save us with an update because I get to talking about how none of your children will retire with a pension!

 

[adma]

It's amazing how much things go sideways in this topic when it's a slow news week... even indulging immaturity, and no, I'm not discluding myself.

Trolls, just like pigeons, have well meaning people feed them, however, all that's left from good intensions is a huge quantity of toxic shit.

Though arguably, re HaveLove, I wound up turning the tables by having *him* feed *me*. Which was, sorta, worth it--clearly, he didn't expect to be "cornered" like that, or to be highlighted in such unflattering terms through his response. Most other trolls would just duck my kind of troll bait; he didn't...

HaveLove's architectural sensitivity, in a metaphorical nutshell.

 

[J-Funk]

First I'd just like to say that I started following this thread just after the crack video scandal was broken and I've found this thread a fun, interesting and (often) intelligent conversation of Toronto politics.

That being said I think the discussion with HaveLove shows that a number of people here don't understand the difference between circumstantial and direct (not "hard") evidence. Circumstantial evidence is valid evidence and is not inherently weaker than direct evidence; the difference is that circumstantial evidence requires an inference to connect it to commission of the crime whereas direct evidence connects the evidence to the crime directly. Now this might seem like it would mean circumstantial evidence is less reliable than direct evidence but when you look at the types of evidence that count as either circumstantial or direct it's obvious that in fact circumstantial evidence is often stronger than direct evidence. Look at forensic evidence such as fingerprints, ballistics or DNA evidence which are all examples of circumstantial evidence and they are all considered amongst the strongest evidence available in a court of law. So strong that they are often used to refute direct evidence, like that of mistaken/lying eye witnesses.

Editted to add: I'm not a lawyer but I do work in the legal field.

The important distinction is not between circumstantial and direct evidence but between evidence that corroborates and evidence that doesn't corroborate. And in the case of the Ford Crack video, the evidence - both the direct evidence of the three reporters who witnessed the video and the circumstantial evidence like Ford's erratic behaviour or Towhey being fired for asking Ford to get help or all the resignations from his office or Lisi & Price looking for the tape, etc. - when taken all together corroborates the idea that Ford has a substance abuse problem and the video exists.

Hello, thank you for a civilized and non-personal attack response, much appreciated, seems to be rare in these parts.

My reference to 1.5-2 hours was from a few pages back, to get to Eaton Center for example sakes (up to 2 hours in rush hour). I live in the middlefield and mcnicoll area, so in order to get to a subway, we have to go ~45 mins down finch, or ~10 minutes then another ~30 down Kennedy. Now when we are at the subway, we can finally enter the long 45-60 minute route from kennedy station to union station. Let's not forget how overcrowded busses can be in scarborough too. It's definitely gotten better in the last decade when it comes to more frequent service, but it can still be a very dreadful trip.

I've lived most of my life in Scarborough and Ford's little extension to Scarborough Town Centre does little to nothing for the majority of the residents of Scarborough whereas the proposed LRT line (especially if it's extended to Malvern) reaches more of Scarborough and does a much better job of eliminating the lengthy bus rides you describe above. At the same time, neither the LRT plan nor the subway do a single thing for the people of southeast Scarborough trying to use transit to get downtown but only one is likely to hurt the chances for future solutions. The waste of an extra 500 million to 1 billion dollars on the subway option significantly reduces the chances of an extension of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT further along Eglinton East that would actually help the residents of southeast Scarborough get downtown faster and easier.

LRT is not a second rate technology and it is not streetcars. Many world-class cities (like Paris, Berlin & Boston) have LRT lines and so they are not an insult to Scarborough and they don't make Scarborough second class.

On the length of your journey from Middlefield/McNicoll to Union, I don't think I've ever tried it from around there but the Google maps directions for that trip suggest that in rush hour it takes about 1 hour and 16 minutes and going down to Kennedy Station isn't one of the suggested routes. The fastest is to take the 42 bus along McNicoll all the way to Finch Station and then straight down to Union from there which doesn't seem like that difficult a journey.

 

[OSS 117]

What ever I'm done with this forum after only 6 posts (7 after this), how sad. Can't have a discussion without people getting all personal.

News flash to you sad and desperates; Ford will get back into the Mayor's Chair.

The entire crack cocaine scandal is easy to see what actually happen. The big part, is the fact that Ford's name will be cleared and you will all be very disappointed that you wasted your summer following a scandal that was a complete misunderstanding from a situation.

I can make an EDUCATED guess at what ACTUAL happen with this whole thing, instead of just automatically rigging my brain to "FORD'S A CRACK HEAD" like most of you do without any other thought process involved.

Residents called the Mayor's office to complain about an increase in drug and crime activity in their area, and warn of something big that is going to go down. The person who called obviously wont want to be identified and have his/her name be confidential to avoid being a "rat" after the everything is done. The information is relayed to the police from the Ford's office to the police. The police already know about this area and are 1 year into their investigation, this tip off from a resident may have forced them to do the raid early before things go out of control. Police make raids and arrests, and they can't disclose anything to the public because it's going through the courts right now.

This is the most LOGICAL conclusion of what happen. When you think about it in all seriousness, without anything personal against the mayor, this conclusion makes sense for what happen. But for some strange reason, the mayors name is mashed into the entire mess, because of a ALLEGED video.

Maybe you will look back at this post and laugh at yourself when it comes to light that the entire project had nothing to do with Ford himself, and just the fact that one of his assistance contacted police about a tip from a resident.

Good luck with your lives all the ford haters, I'll be sure to come back here when he get's re-elected and see what's next.

FORD FOR 2014 MAYOR!

Oh my God.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

You are pretty adamant for a guy who proudly declared they stopped following the story months ago -- then whined and moaned about how it's the same story being repeated -- and also believes it was one reporter who saw the video.

I'm so sick of the idiocy of ford nation.

I have been following the recent descent into troll induced thread diarrhea with some satisfaction -- having stuck to my early commitment to ignore HaveLove -- and had only intended to point out in response to the above sentiment that one has to wonder where the actual "idiocy" is to be found if a single Ford troll can befoul 15 pages of thread and steal numerous hours of people's lives.

Then I forced myself to read that counterfactual rant that OSS117 noted above and I got to thinking about why we never see Forgotten and HaveLove in the thread at the same time. Has Forgotten taken his/her satirical distillation of Fordspeak to the next level of artistic greatness? All I know is, if the only words of HaveLove you have ever read are ^that post, you might suspect so.

 

[dforthandbview]

While the mayor's office is currently swamped with requests for emails, for those that are interested, here's an informative discussion about the FOI process and what it's all about: http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1lhp9w/mayor_rob_fords_office_swamped_by_freedom_of/

 

[syn]

I can tell you one thing for sure, this picture does NOT tell me that there is a video attached to it or related to it. It just looks like a couple thugs wanted a picture with the mayor to look cool. Unless this is supposed to be a frame grab of a video, if that's what it supposed to be, it's even more laughable.

Seriously?

I'm seeing a severe lack of critical thinking here. These are known figures in the drug trade. One of them is dead. The picture was taken at the home of Ford's long time friend, a drug dealer/addict.

At this point one has to have their head completely in the sand to think the video doesn't exist.

 

[syn]

What ever I'm done with this forum after only 6 posts (7 after this), how sad. Can't have a discussion without people getting all personal.

News flash to you sad and desperates; Ford will get back into the Mayor's Chair.

The entire crack cocaine scandal is easy to see what actually happen. The big part, is the fact that Ford's name will be cleared and you will all be very disappointed that you wasted your summer following a scandal that was a complete misunderstanding from a situation.

I can make an EDUCATED guess at what ACTUAL happen with this whole thing, instead of just automatically rigging my brain to "FORD'S A CRACK HEAD" like most of you do without any other thought process involved.

Residents called the Mayor's office to complain about an increase in drug and crime activity in their area, and warn of something big that is going to go down. The person who called obviously wont want to be identified and have his/her name be confidential to avoid being a "rat" after the everything is done. The information is relayed to the police from the Ford's office to the police. The police already know about this area and are 1 year into their investigation, this tip off from a resident may have forced them to do the raid early before things go out of control. Police make raids and arrests, and they can't disclose anything to the public because it's going through the courts right now.

This is the most LOGICAL conclusion of what happen. When you think about it in all seriousness, without anything personal against the mayor, this conclusion makes sense for what happen. But for some strange reason, the mayors name is mashed into the entire mess, because of a ALLEGED video.

Maybe you will look back at this post and laugh at yourself when it comes to light that the entire project had nothing to do with Ford himself, and just the fact that one of his assistance contacted police about a tip from a resident.

Good luck with your lives all the ford haters, I'll be sure to come back here when he get's re-elected and see what's next.

FORD FOR 2014 MAYOR!

Oh we'll be laughing...just not at ourselves...

 

[OSS 117]

Keep replying to me and I'll keep getting email's that bring me back.

You can't come up with anything else? Just stating that a video exists, that is all? Come on I thought the anti-ford nation could do better then this.

I really wish there was SOMETHING to convince me that a video exists.... I like a good scandal like anyone else, when it is real. If the Ford Scandal was real, I'd be on it like fly on shit. There's just so much BULLSHIT about this story, it's impossible to believe. And you have got be a complete zombie to only think one way based on what 1 reporter initially says he saw.

How do you expect anyone to convince you when you admit you stopped following the news on the story in May? I don't think anyone here is looking for a part time job filling you in on everything that's happened in the city for the last three months. Why don't you try going back a couple thousand pages here and reading up? You might learn something, and at the same time realize that everything you're bringing up has been covered ad nauseum, and people are getting sick of responding to the same uninformed talking points.

 

[ahm]

i just finished watching season 1 of the newsroom. if havelove is some jr producer at ctv riling us all up for a story about trolls, i will be kind of pissed off. especially if there's no sloan sabbith on here.

 

[jje1000]

Take note that polls like these are fairly useless as the mayoral race will likely not be a head-to-head race. However, it's useful in that it proves that Ford's bedrock support remains at around 33%, and he needs only 40% to win, which can easily occur if vote splitting occurs (i.e. Tory and Chow). Organizers, take note.

Toronto mayoral poll: Chow, Tory, Stintz beat Ford head-to-head
By: Daniel Dale City Hall, Published on Sat Aug 31 2013

Olivia Chow maintained her lead over Mayor Rob Ford and other possible rivals in the latest preliminary poll on the 2014 mayor’s race.

Chow, the NDP MP who is quietly preparing for a run, beat Ford 57 per cent to 33 per cent in a survey of 848 people conducted by Forum Research on Thursday evening.

John Tory, the radio host, CivicAction chair and former Progressive Conservative leader, also beat Ford handily head-to-head, 50 per cent to 33 per cent.

And Councillor Karen Stintz, the right-leaning TTC chair who has joined Chow in organizing behind the scenes, beat Ford 44 per cent to 40 per cent.

The race is unlikely to be a two-person contest, at least until the end. Ford, a polarizing figure who has a strong base of devoted supporters, generally fares best in polling in multi-candidate races where others split the opposition vote.

He still lost to Chow in a hypothetical four-way race. Chow got 39 per cent, Ford 27 per cent, Tory 24 per cent, Stintz 5 per cent.

The poll was conducted through interactive voice response automated phone calls. The margin of error is 3 per cent, 19 times out of 20.

Tory, who lost to David Miller in 2003, says he is considering a second run. A Tory candidacy would pose a major challenge to Stintz, who would probably target a similar group of voters. But Stintz has told her team, and Tory, that she is planning to run whether or not he does.

“John Tory’s going to make a decision. But it won’t affect my decision,” she said in June.

The campaign period begins in January 2014.

Chow, a former councillor, represents the federal riding of Trinity-Spadina. She has polled better than Ford for months, though the size of her lead has fluctuated. She led by 11 percentage points, 53 per cent to 42 per cent, in a June poll.

Forum also tested an inconceivable matchup between Ford and Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong, the conservative who chairs the public works committee. Despite Ford’s vast name recognition advantage, he only beat Minnan-Wong 39 per cent to 36 per cent, a statistical tie.

The October 2014 vote is still 14 months away. Voters’ preferences can change quickly once they turn their attention to their options, and eventual winners, such as David Miller, sometimes begin as apparent longshots.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed