Rob Ford's Toronto

[ttk77]

It was wrong years back ... not sure if it was bigotry.

We still don't let 18-year old drink in this province. Is that wrong, or just bigotry?

18 year olds arent a race, religion or minority lifestyle. Denying the right to mary was discrimination against a minority and denying them the same rights as everyone else years ago just as it is today.

 

[nfitz]

Funny that people are saying the Ford has won... they have to get $550m from the Federal Gov't by Sept 30. That doesn't happen, it's back to the LRT.

The text says "City Council confirm its support for the Scarborough Subway contingent on: a. new federal funding equal to 50% of the net capital costs; b. provincial contribution of $1.8 billion (2010 $); - requesting the provincial and federal governments to commit their portion of funding by September 30, 2013, "

September 30 is simply a request. I don't see anything hard about that date. Nor do I see an issue about City Council approving a different funding mechanism in the future (would they turn down the province paying 100% for example?).

 

[Tulse]

it does appear to pull funding from the Sheppard LRT

No, it doesn't -- the amendment by Mihevc that passed said the project is contingent on "no other funding outlined in the Metrolinx and City of Toronto Master Agreement being re-allocated to the extension of the Bloor Danforth line from: i. Sheppard LRT; ii. Finch LRT; iii. Eglinton LRT".

So if the province doesn't agree to put more cash on the table, the deal is dead, at least as voted on today.

 

[jje1000]

I just got home and heard the news. I'm stunned. If this does pass the funding test this project may hand him the next election.

In answer to an earlier question, it does appear to pull funding from the Sheppard LRT (that $333 million figure that kept getting batted around until one of the Councillors put 1+1 together mid-day yesterday, about 20 minutes before the YouTube clip a couple of pages back). To see how this unfolded, click on this link and start at 383:12 (you'll see the timer in the lower left of the video window) when Rob Ford tables his Motion. It's a really good watch - http://www.rogerstv.com/page.aspx?lid=237&rid=16&sid=1030&gid=116238

If it passes the funding test, it would be good, because it'll show that council has finally realized that things cost money. if things are played right, funds could also contribute to the amount needed for the DRL.

As for the Sheppard LRT funding, I've several contradictory things today, so I'll wait on that. To pull funding from Sheppard for Scarborough only reaffirms the fact that Ford only cares about the end, not the means. And what a narrow-viewed end indeed!

 

[nfitz]

18 year olds arent a race, religion or minority lifestyle.

So? Ageism can be bigotry.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

No, it doesn't -- the amendment by Mihevc that passed said the project is contingent on "no other funding outlined in the Metrolinx and City of Toronto Master Agreement being re-allocated to the extension of the Bloor Danforth line from: i. Sheppard LRT; ii. Finch LRT; iii. Eglinton LRT".

So if the province doesn't agree to put more cash on the table, the deal is dead, at least as voted on today.

Thanks for the correction Tulse, that's good news. I've got today's Council session on the PVR but as I say, I just got home and haven't got into the details, amendments/nitty-gritty's yet. I hope there's a little bit of "entertainment" in there!

 

[ttk77]

So? Ageism can be bigotry.

Yes. The first part of my argument was ill thought out. I was about to edit, but my subway went underground.

You can certainly make the argument that our current liquor laws are age discriminatory, and I would probably have to agree since by law you're considered an adult for almost all other purposes.. The point that I was trying to make is that if something is considered bigotry today, then I don't see why it wouldn't be considered bigotry yesterday as well. The only real difference between the situation years ago and today was that this particular prejudice was held by the majority. Am I missing something here? The people of the day may not have considered it bigotry considering people rarely consider their own views to be prejudiced... is that what you were getting at?

 

[guitarchitect]

No, it doesn't -- the amendment by Mihevc that passed said the project is contingent on "no other funding outlined in the Metrolinx and City of Toronto Master Agreement being re-allocated to the extension of the Bloor Danforth line from: i. Sheppard LRT; ii. Finch LRT; iii. Eglinton LRT".

So if the province doesn't agree to put more cash on the table, the deal is dead, at least as voted on today.

I really don't get it. Why does the city think it deserves money from the federal government to put in 3 subway stops, when there is already a fully funded plan for a 7 stop LRT? Last time I checked, we can't force the Federal Government's hand in a game they aren't even playing.

EDIT: Further What-The-Fuckery: Metrolinx wants the City's re-affirmation of the LRT by August 2, 2013. That's not going to happen. So now it's a foregone conclusions - "Metrolinx will suspend work on the Scarborough LRT project, pending clarification of the City’s position on the Master Agreement."

 

[Forgotten]

I really don't get it. Why does the city think it deserves money from the federal government to put in 3 subway stops, when there is already a fully funded plan for a 7 stop LRT? Last time I checked, we can't force the Federal Government's hand in a game they aren't even playing.

EDIT: Further What-The-Fuckery: Metrolinx wants the City's re-affirmation of the LRT by August 2, 2013. That's not going to happen. So now it's a foregone conclusions - "Metrolinx will suspend work on the Scarborough LRT project, pending clarification of the City’s position on the Master Agreement."

Rob Ford has friends in the federal government and that includes the finance minister ready to help. The people have spoken today with an overwhelming majority and the unelected premier will have no choice but to accept their will and give Toronto its fair share.

 

[Lansdude]

Rob Ford has friends in the federal government and that includes the finance minister ready to help. The people have spoken today with an overwhelming majority and the unelected premier will have no choice but to accept their will and give Toronto its fair share.

The people speak of stupid things sometimes. I bet if you polled Scarborough residents they wouldn't even know what an LRT is, like Ford. So, thanks to Ford and Stintz for capitalizing on the vocal ignorance of the electorate.

 

[guitarchitect]

Rob Ford has friends in the federal government and that includes the finance minister ready to help. The people have spoken today with an overwhelming majority and the unelected premier will have no choice but to accept their will and give Toronto its fair share.

So what you're saying is - the reason the city deserves more funding for transit (and will get it) is because of who the mayor knows?

Please tell me how "the people" have spoken. What we have is anecdotes from the mayor about what the people "want". What we know is that the subway will serve about half as many people (within walking distance) as the funded LRT line. Did anyone poll these people to ask what they want?

EDIT: Just to add, City Council definitively voted against raising property taxes to pay for transit about 2 months ago. Yet today, in voting (and therefore clarifying their position to Metrolinx) to freeze the fully-funded LRT, they also voted in favour of raising property taxes by 2.4% over 4 years. To build a 3-stop subway extension. Is that just a little bit crazy to you?

 

[Lansdude]

Please tell me how "the people" have spoken. What we have is anecdotes from the mayor about what the people "want". What we know is that the subway will serve about half as many people (within walking distance) as the funded LRT line. Did anyone poll these people to ask what they want?

It means a handful of low-information Ford supporters got him on the horn and told him "Mr. Mayor, you gotta call an audible on this". That counts as statistical relevance to incurable morons like Ford.

 

[Forgotten]

So what you're saying is - the reason the city deserves more funding for transit (and will get it) is because of who the mayor knows?

Please tell me how "the people" have spoken. What we have is anecdotes from the mayor about what the people "want". What we know is that the subway will serve about half as many people (within walking distance) as the funded LRT line. Did anyone poll these people to ask what they want?

EDIT: Just to add, City Council definitively voted against raising property taxes to pay for transit about 2 months ago. Yet today, in voting (and therefore clarifying their position to Metrolinx) to freeze the fully-funded LRT, they also voted in favour of raising property taxes by 2.4% over 4 years. To build a 3-stop subway extension. Is that just a little bit crazy to you?

The people have spoken 28-16 an overwhelming majority. It doesn't matter what council voted for 2 months ago because of Rob Ford's leadership they saw their error and did the right thing today and delivered subways to Scarborough just as promised.

 

[spider]

From The Toronto Star website, a letter to the editor:

One of the most common and valid critiques of the left in Canada and elsewhere is to note a particular susceptibility to narcissism. It manifests as the unexamined conviction by the left-leaning that their views represent higher moral truths rather than simply their own subjective preferences.
Therefore to question their conclusions or to represent different values is seen not as a valid challenge to a particular perspective, but rather as a rejection of goodness and decency itself. The standard response from the left to a different point of view is to assume the person is either evil, stupid or perhaps from the Alberta.
In her column, Carol Goar blithely exemplifies these traits with stereotypical sanctimony. She arrogantly bemoans the “passivity of the population.” Her contempt for “the people” is clear as she scolds them for not “asking questions, seeking alternatives, discussing the consequences of this pared-down agenda.”
Apparently she views the population as child-like simpletons who are “not equipped to gauge the severity of global risks or judge how much belt-tightening is needed to insulate Canada from them.” In short, Ms Goar has concluded that Canadians are simply too stupid, lazy and amoral to challenge the evil agenda of the government.
Of course, there is the possibility that Canadians aren’t stupid at all. It could be that by and large they think the government is on the right track with this. But such intellectual generosity and objectivity is probably expecting too much from those who so shamelessly indulge in conflating their own personal values with “the value system Canadians once shared.”
Michael Harris, Toronto

 

[Lansdude]

The people have spoken 28-16 an overwhelming majority. It doesn't matter what council voted for 2 months ago because of Rob Ford's leadership they saw their error and did the right thing today and delivered subways to Scarborough just as promised.

Are you trolling right now? You just reasserted what you said without providing evidence that "the people have spoken". Your reasoning is poor. Please justify what you said about "the people" speaking.