junctionist
Senior Member
For all those who wondered why the empty land west of the police station remained undeveloped despite all the condos going up around it, the reason was that it was for snow storage 
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Roads: Six Points Interchange Reconfiguration (City of Toronto, UC)
For all those who wondered why the empty land west of the police station remained undeveloped despite all the condos going up around it, the reason was that it was for snow storage
Well, it was snow storage because the TTC had long wanted that land (and the rest of the Westwood theatre lands) as a spot for a new subway yard, should one be necessitated by any extensions to the BD line. The City told the TTC a while ago to fuhgeddaboutit, and that land has continued to sit in limbo while the plans we are discussing in this thread were drawn up.
I think the new plan for the snow once this area is developed is just to plow it all to Mississauga and dump it over the boundary.
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Observer Walt
Senior Member
Ha ha interchange, perhaps put it on the land designated for the power plant near Dundas and Etobicoke Creek?
Off topic for Six Points... but there's a plan for a power plant near Dundas and the Etobicoke Creek? Huh! Got a url for that? If it's a go, then we should start a new thread about it!
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PS - Okay, no dumping snow in Misisissauga.
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PS - Okay, no dumping snow in Misisissauga.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
A ton of reports from Planning and Growth Management Committee:
Staff report - EA Study
Maps
Environmental Study Report - Executive Summary
Gist: $37M (2007 Dollars) - excluding property acquisition, remediation and landscaping; funding dependent on staged development of Westwood Lands; 2-3 yr construction with full funding.
AoD
Staff report - EA Study
Maps
Environmental Study Report - Executive Summary
Gist: $37M (2007 Dollars) - excluding property acquisition, remediation and landscaping; funding dependent on staged development of Westwood Lands; 2-3 yr construction with full funding.
AoD
MisterF
Senior Member
A few comments:
-Are six lanes needed on Dundas? Six lanes plus turning lanes makes for a huge street. I counted 8 lanes at a couple of those intersections! What kind of traffic volumes are we dealing with here? With streets like this the whole area will feel like North York Centre, not a genuine urban neighbourhood.
-All those right turn lanes seem unnecessary.
-At least the sidewalks are wide (5-10 m) with lots of room for street trees. If the buildings have proper streetwalls and retail that could mitigate the huge streets. I think that's University Ave's problem, hardly any of the buildings address the street properly.
-There really should be a way to incorporate street parking, especially on the minor streets. If it could be worked onto the major streets it would really help buffer pedestrians from traffic.
-The civic square looks too isolated. It might not be a good idea to move it to one of the intersections because of the traffic volumes, but it should be opened up somehow. One way would be to allow traffic on the pedestrian link from the Dundas loop to Bloor. Even a narrow street with right-in-right-out access would help bring some more life to that square. I have a feeling Bloor St would have more pedestrian traffic than the Dundas loop, so the square should probably be spun around to face Bloor.
-I don't see the point of that little parkette at Kipling and Bloor.
-Are six lanes needed on Dundas? Six lanes plus turning lanes makes for a huge street. I counted 8 lanes at a couple of those intersections! What kind of traffic volumes are we dealing with here? With streets like this the whole area will feel like North York Centre, not a genuine urban neighbourhood.
-All those right turn lanes seem unnecessary.
-At least the sidewalks are wide (5-10 m) with lots of room for street trees. If the buildings have proper streetwalls and retail that could mitigate the huge streets. I think that's University Ave's problem, hardly any of the buildings address the street properly.
-There really should be a way to incorporate street parking, especially on the minor streets. If it could be worked onto the major streets it would really help buffer pedestrians from traffic.
-The civic square looks too isolated. It might not be a good idea to move it to one of the intersections because of the traffic volumes, but it should be opened up somehow. One way would be to allow traffic on the pedestrian link from the Dundas loop to Bloor. Even a narrow street with right-in-right-out access would help bring some more life to that square. I have a feeling Bloor St would have more pedestrian traffic than the Dundas loop, so the square should probably be spun around to face Bloor.
-I don't see the point of that little parkette at Kipling and Bloor.
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notyouagain
Guest
Transportfan
Senior Member
I hope the City rethinks the plan for the Dundas alignment to make it continuous.
Dan416
Senior Member
I agree. You shouldn't have to make a turn to stay on the same street, in my opinion.
Lone Primate
Active Member
Well, that's true of Bloor in spades. I used to have business down in that area years ago and what I principally remember about it was having to take that weird little run through the park to get back to Bloor when heading west. Dundas, sure, but fix Bloor. Six Points was designed by guys with slide rules. We must have computers that can do a better job than this. We put in the parameters and then select the result that's least noxious to the people living around there.
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notyouagain
Guest
The planning and growth management committee has recommended that city council approve the plan to redesign the interchange. One interesting revision is the plan to add landscaped medians on all three roads. The west district design initiative was also approved by the committee. It's been a long haul but is it possible that this will actually happen? We've only been waiting 20 years!
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/pg/decisions/2007-11-29-pg11-dd.pdf
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/pg/decisions/2007-11-29-pg11-dd.pdf
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
Untangling Etobicoke's messy Six Points interchange
'Spaghetti junction' and vacant lands finally getting attention with massive new scheme
Jan 07, 2008 04:30 AM
Jim Byers
city hall bureau
If the late Jane Jacobs had nightmares, they looked like this.
Standing in the parking lot of the old Westwood Theatre at Kipling and Bloor, you see a couple of small storefronts in a mostly deserted building. Off to your left is an abandoned dump where the city used to empty its trucks of filthy, salty snow. Behind you is the Six Points interchange, a nightmarish series of ramps and roads that twist and turn and confuse even long-time west-end residents. Giant stretches of vacant land sit forlornly between the ramps, serving mostly as collection spots for coffee cups and fast-food wrappers and other urban detritus.
It's going to take a few years, but Toronto council this month endorsed a massive plan that calls for an entire new downtown focus in this long-neglected corner of the city.
Called the West District Design Initiative, the scheme features three major components.
The Six Points ramps and bridges – known as the "spaghetti junction" – would be reconfigured into a pedestrian-friendly intersection that gives better access to the Westwood Theatre lands and provides the chance for new development on a traditional grid-like road system. A new YMCA would be built and parkland added.
Raggedy bus bays at Bloor and Islington would be dragged down to create space for new development that gives the area more of a traditional urban look. Mississauga Transit's terminal would be pushed west to Kipling and the area will given a new, polished look with added trees, better paving materials, improved lighting and new street furniture.
The old Etobicoke Civic Centre at Burnhamthorpe Rd. and Highway 427, which is now surrounded by acres of grey parking lots, would be redeveloped; likely with both office and residential buildings with a higher density than now exists. A new civic centre would be built along Bloor, probably near the Kipling station.
"We're looking at all three properties together to see how we can move things around and make some money and get some assessment growth," said Toronto councillor Peter Milczyn, who helped push for the changes. "We want to knit these various pieces together. We're looking at everything from roads to subway stations to bus terminals to recreational facilities, as well as parks and residential, retail and office space."
North York has its downtown, although it's hardly what some imagined. Scarborough has something of a central focus. Downtown Toronto has been given a facelift at Yonge and Dundas. But Etobicoke has sat quietly on the sidelines, waiting its turn.
"It's something I wanted to do when I was in Etobicoke prior to amalgamation," said Toronto councillor and former Etobicoke mayor Doug Holyday. "We've wanted to do something for a long time but it's always been just out of reach.
"We built Dundas Square in downtown Toronto at considerable cost. But there hasn't been much thought given to Etobicoke."
"Etobicoke has never had a central focus," Milczyn said as he drove a reporter around the area. "We're getting residential development already, so we don't need that as much as we need offices, employment lands and community facilities. This is the biggest chunk of city-owned land outside the port lands, so we can do a lot with it."
SNC Lavalin already has committed to beefing up Bloor and Islington with a new headquarters building.
Milczyn said discussions are underway with a "major public institution" about joining the company in the area.
"It makes sense if we do it the right way," said Holyday. "I do worry about the costs. I'd like to sell the civic centre and use the money for the rest of the project but I'm afraid someone on council might have other plans for it.
Milczyn and Holyday agree the Bloor-Dundas Six Points junction at Kipling is a mess.
"The roads take up a lot of room," Milczyn said. "It was all planned in the 1950s and built before the subway was extended. That was the edge of the city when it was built. It's now all surrounded by development, and it doesn't work on any level."
"I used to have a business in the area and I had a hard time myself telling people how to get there," Holyday said with a laugh.
The redevelopment will cost around $37 million, but some of that money would've had to be spent to fix up the existing system, anyway, Milczyn said. By creating new space for development, the city will be able to sell off some one and a half hectares and use that cash to help pay for the road work. Redeveloping most of the old civic centre site – some historic elements will almost certainly be kept – could raise $36 million, Milczyn said.
Not everyone is enamoured of the redesign of the 2.8-kilometre strip.
"It's simply not necessary," said Terry Reardon of the Islington Ratepayers Association. "I've been in the area for 30-odd years and there's never been a hold-up around the Six Points interchange. Even people who support the changes admit the extra traffic signals will mean a slowdown."
Reardon says people who want to avoid the signals will start using side streets more often and that traffic will increase on Bloor west of Kipling, which is primarily a residential street.
Asked if he didn't consider the current interchange an eyesore, Reardon chuckled.
"It works. It might be ugly but roads aren't there to be beautiful."
Reardon said residents want parks and community space on the old theatre lands, not more condos. He also said they worry that some of the units are "fairly low-priced and we could have another St. Jamestown unless there are lots of activities for the kids."
"It's a good idea to redevelop Six Points," said Peter Quach, owner of Thyme 4 Pizza on Dundas W. "It would probably help businesses in the area. Right now, people travelling eastbound have to make a U-turn to get to some of the businesses. It's very dangerous."
'Spaghetti junction' and vacant lands finally getting attention with massive new scheme
Jan 07, 2008 04:30 AM
Jim Byers
city hall bureau
If the late Jane Jacobs had nightmares, they looked like this.
Standing in the parking lot of the old Westwood Theatre at Kipling and Bloor, you see a couple of small storefronts in a mostly deserted building. Off to your left is an abandoned dump where the city used to empty its trucks of filthy, salty snow. Behind you is the Six Points interchange, a nightmarish series of ramps and roads that twist and turn and confuse even long-time west-end residents. Giant stretches of vacant land sit forlornly between the ramps, serving mostly as collection spots for coffee cups and fast-food wrappers and other urban detritus.
It's going to take a few years, but Toronto council this month endorsed a massive plan that calls for an entire new downtown focus in this long-neglected corner of the city.
Called the West District Design Initiative, the scheme features three major components.
The Six Points ramps and bridges – known as the "spaghetti junction" – would be reconfigured into a pedestrian-friendly intersection that gives better access to the Westwood Theatre lands and provides the chance for new development on a traditional grid-like road system. A new YMCA would be built and parkland added.
Raggedy bus bays at Bloor and Islington would be dragged down to create space for new development that gives the area more of a traditional urban look. Mississauga Transit's terminal would be pushed west to Kipling and the area will given a new, polished look with added trees, better paving materials, improved lighting and new street furniture.
The old Etobicoke Civic Centre at Burnhamthorpe Rd. and Highway 427, which is now surrounded by acres of grey parking lots, would be redeveloped; likely with both office and residential buildings with a higher density than now exists. A new civic centre would be built along Bloor, probably near the Kipling station.
"We're looking at all three properties together to see how we can move things around and make some money and get some assessment growth," said Toronto councillor Peter Milczyn, who helped push for the changes. "We want to knit these various pieces together. We're looking at everything from roads to subway stations to bus terminals to recreational facilities, as well as parks and residential, retail and office space."
North York has its downtown, although it's hardly what some imagined. Scarborough has something of a central focus. Downtown Toronto has been given a facelift at Yonge and Dundas. But Etobicoke has sat quietly on the sidelines, waiting its turn.
"It's something I wanted to do when I was in Etobicoke prior to amalgamation," said Toronto councillor and former Etobicoke mayor Doug Holyday. "We've wanted to do something for a long time but it's always been just out of reach.
"We built Dundas Square in downtown Toronto at considerable cost. But there hasn't been much thought given to Etobicoke."
"Etobicoke has never had a central focus," Milczyn said as he drove a reporter around the area. "We're getting residential development already, so we don't need that as much as we need offices, employment lands and community facilities. This is the biggest chunk of city-owned land outside the port lands, so we can do a lot with it."
SNC Lavalin already has committed to beefing up Bloor and Islington with a new headquarters building.
Milczyn said discussions are underway with a "major public institution" about joining the company in the area.
"It makes sense if we do it the right way," said Holyday. "I do worry about the costs. I'd like to sell the civic centre and use the money for the rest of the project but I'm afraid someone on council might have other plans for it.
Milczyn and Holyday agree the Bloor-Dundas Six Points junction at Kipling is a mess.
"The roads take up a lot of room," Milczyn said. "It was all planned in the 1950s and built before the subway was extended. That was the edge of the city when it was built. It's now all surrounded by development, and it doesn't work on any level."
"I used to have a business in the area and I had a hard time myself telling people how to get there," Holyday said with a laugh.
The redevelopment will cost around $37 million, but some of that money would've had to be spent to fix up the existing system, anyway, Milczyn said. By creating new space for development, the city will be able to sell off some one and a half hectares and use that cash to help pay for the road work. Redeveloping most of the old civic centre site – some historic elements will almost certainly be kept – could raise $36 million, Milczyn said.
Not everyone is enamoured of the redesign of the 2.8-kilometre strip.
"It's simply not necessary," said Terry Reardon of the Islington Ratepayers Association. "I've been in the area for 30-odd years and there's never been a hold-up around the Six Points interchange. Even people who support the changes admit the extra traffic signals will mean a slowdown."
Reardon says people who want to avoid the signals will start using side streets more often and that traffic will increase on Bloor west of Kipling, which is primarily a residential street.
Asked if he didn't consider the current interchange an eyesore, Reardon chuckled.
"It works. It might be ugly but roads aren't there to be beautiful."
Reardon said residents want parks and community space on the old theatre lands, not more condos. He also said they worry that some of the units are "fairly low-priced and we could have another St. Jamestown unless there are lots of activities for the kids."
"It's a good idea to redevelop Six Points," said Peter Quach, owner of Thyme 4 Pizza on Dundas W. "It would probably help businesses in the area. Right now, people travelling eastbound have to make a U-turn to get to some of the businesses. It's very dangerous."
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Oh geez, what was Doug Holyday doing before Etobicoke, god forbid, merged with Scarborough? In case one isn't aware of his pedigree, here is a quote from his page on the City's website:
http://www.toronto.ca/councillors/holyday1.htm
Clearly, Etobicoke had been shafted by Miller et al once again.
Telling, no?
AoD
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notyouagain
Guest
Alvino, I'm not usually in a position to defend Holyday, but to be fair, Westwood was owned by the Metro govt while the cityhall was owned by Etobicoke, making a swap of lands as likely as one between the governments of Dallas and Tehran. There's not much to recommend amalgamation but I must admit that it is far easier to move municipal offices to Bloor and Islington or Westwood now that all the properties are owned by the same government. Oh and that Reardon fellow - what an anoying curmudgeon he is. I wish the press would stop giving him all of this undue attention. What's the paid up membership of the residents' association? Does it consult its membership before taking its position? I'm going to start up my own association: the Islington Association of Rational Residents.
junctionist
Senior Member
At least in that interview, he doesn't sound like a curmudgeon, but rather a lifelong resident who has never attempted to bike around the neighbourhood for purposes other than leisure.