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Roads: Six Points Interchange Reconfiguration (City of Toronto, UC)

Some renders prior in this thread imply a very walkable, urban built form, but based on everything put up so far in the area and the City's reputation with this to date, expect a less-dense NYCC.
It's worth noting that a less-dense NYCC is a significant step up in walkability, urbanity, and general livability from what was there before.

My experience so far walking in the area is that it's light years ahead of where it was. The Six Points plaza is still quite lively even during covid (before lockdown) and it's a better pedestrian experience than many of the main roads nearby.. and that's as a empty wasteland.
 
It's worth noting that a less-dense NYCC is a significant step up in walkability, urbanity, and general livability from what was there before.

My experience so far walking in the area is that it's light years ahead of where it was. The Six Points plaza is still quite lively even during covid (before lockdown) and it's a better pedestrian experience than many of the main roads nearby.. and that's as a empty wasteland.

I’m not impressed with NYCC - to me, the old 2-storey strip buildings are the ones with the most interesting restaurants and stores, and they are being slowly turned over in favour of sterile towers with higher-rent commercial on the ground floor.

Six Points has at least pencilled in bike lanes and sidewalks, so it’s minimally walkable. Yonge Street from the 401 to Finch is a good example of how to waste a redevelopment opportunity. But it’s a good street to drive along, and that’s my fear for Six Points. We will see.

- Paul
 
I’m not impressed with NYCC - to me, the old 2-storey strip buildings are the ones with the most interesting restaurants and stores, and they are being slowly turned over in favour of sterile towers with higher-rent commercial on the ground floor.

Six Points has at least pencilled in bike lanes and sidewalks, so it’s minimally walkable. Yonge Street from the 401 to Finch is a good example of how to waste a redevelopment opportunity. But it’s a good street to drive along, and that’s my fear for Six Points. We will see.

- Paul

NYCC is getting Yonge fixed ~2026'ish with 2 vehicle lanes removed, and separated bike lanes and streetscaped sidewalks added.

But it would have been better had it not been widened to excess to begin with.

And that statement certainly applies to Six Points as well.

In respect of character in NYCC, its just a shame that some of nicer character buildings were completely demolished and/or relocated.

New buildings could have gone around them; and/or done a facadectomy........and left Yonge with a bit more flavour.

****

This (Dempsey's Hardware) looks fine, if out of place in a park.......some distance from its original placement.

1620561410318.png



But it belongs at the corner of Yonge and Sheppard:

1620561487271.png

from: http://yates.ca/Spring Garden Public School/From Bill Chambers/Yonge Sheppard/
 
As always, posters like @crs1026 cause me to dive down rabbit holes................

He got me wondering what was Six Points like..............before there was the (immediately previous) version of it (the pseudo-highway interchange).....

Well....I found out....


From the above link.........the historic family home of the Wood Family.....demolished to make way for that interchange.

1620561953656.png

"The Maples" Built 1843, Demolished 1966

Another Wood family home made it to 1973.

1620562179888.png

The Woodlawn, Built 1890, Demolished sometime on/after 1973.

The latter home is described as being at the south-east of the intersection...........but I think of that as the Westwood cinema which was built 1951........I'm trying to place where that home that survived beyond that was placed.
 
John Tory seemed to be pandering to residents of the suburbs north of the city when he opposed the pedestrian improvements and bike lanes on Yonge Street in NYCC. A lot of local residents in the area were in favour of the changes. I felt that his position didn't protect the city's interests in having safe, lively, and prosperous communities.
 
No matter what this is a vast improvement. Perhaps I have low standards or because I didn’t expect anything to happen here that I think this is fine. It’s not going to be downtown. Sure it could be better. But I agree it’s a lot better then what was there and it’s a dense community by the subway.
 
No matter what this is a vast improvement. Perhaps I have low standards or because I didn’t expect anything to happen here that I think this is fine. It’s not going to be downtown. Sure it could be better. But I agree it’s a lot better then what was there and it’s a dense community by the subway.
Used to be 60 km/h along the roads. Maybe over time they'll reduce the speed limit down to 50 km/h, but the traffic lanes remain to be tailored for 60 km/h. However, speeders will still do 100+ km/h because it was "designed" for the "safety" of the speeders.

Recently, this happened to a 60 km/h street in Mississauga, because the streets were "designed" for the speeders.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/two-killed-in-fiery-mississauga-crash

Two killed in fiery Ferrari crash in Mississauga

From link.

Neighbours along a strip of roadway near the Credit River in Mississauga call it the “Burnhamthorpe Speedway.”

The section of Burnhamthorpe Rd. just before Promontory Dr. — near Mississauga Rd. — claimed two lives when a westbound Ferrari somehow lost control on a curve around 7:15 a.m.
The sports car slammed into a light standard and burst into a ball of fire.

Peel Regional Police Const. Heather Cannon confirmed that two occupants of the vehicle died at the scene.

“What we know is there was a vehicle travelling westbound on Burmhamthorpe Rd. W. and at some point it left the roadway and hit a pole,” she said.
Jeff Derushie, who lives just across from the scene, said he was waking up just after the crash and heard the firetrucks arriving.

As he planted his flowerbeds in his front lawn, Derushie explained the winding strip of road often has cars and motorcycles “flying down Burnhamthorpe” during the day and night since there is less traffic because of the lockdown.

“People call this the area the Burnhamthorpe Speedway,” said Derushie. “We hear it more and more anytime of the day.”

Victor Rubio, who lives on the corner of Promontory Dr., came outside after hearing the crash and shot video of the flaming vehicle.

“Heard a squeal, it might have been the brakes, and then at the last second I didn’t hear them hit the curb so much,” he said. “But I heard the RPMs race up when they were airborne and then I heard the landing.”

“What a terrible start to the Mother’s Day weekend for somebody,” Rubio added.
The crumpled and charred Ferrari, which was split in half, remained under a blue tarp most of the morning as Peel Regional Police Major Collision officers investigated.

When two tow trucks arrived to remove the wreckage about 2 p.m., a worker flipped the red hood of the car over onto a flatbed revealing the “dancing horse” Ferrari emblem.

Police did not immediately identify the victims.
What good is posting 50 km/h (or 40 km/h) signs on arterial streets, when speeders can still "safety" speed through at 100+ km/h?
 
Used to be 60 km/h along the roads. Maybe over time they'll reduce the speed limit down to 50 km/h, but the traffic lanes remain to be tailored for 60 km/h. However, speeders will still do 100+ km/h because it was "designed" for the "safety" of the speeders.

Recently, this happened to a 60 km/h street in Mississauga, because the streets were "designed" for the speeders.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/two-killed-in-fiery-mississauga-crash

Two killed in fiery Ferrari crash in Mississauga

From link.





What good is posting 50 km/h (or 40 km/h) signs on arterial streets, when speeders can still "safety" speed through at 100+ km/h?
And a five year old on hurontario street and elm died from a car collision this week.

I understand everything you’re saying. My point though is still that things are far superior to when I was a kid when everything in the suburbs was plazas which weren’t walkable at all. We can always strive for better. My point is this is at least better than what was there.
 
Used to be 60 km/h along the roads. Maybe over time they'll reduce the speed limit down to 50 km/h, but the traffic lanes remain to be tailored for 60 km/h. However, speeders will still do 100+ km/h because it was "designed" for the "safety" of the speeders.

Recently, this happened to a 60 km/h street in Mississauga, because the streets were "designed" for the speeders.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/two-killed-in-fiery-mississauga-crash

Two killed in fiery Ferrari crash in Mississauga

From link.





What good is posting 50 km/h (or 40 km/h) signs on arterial streets, when speeders can still "safety" speed through at 100+ km/h?
No, Burnhamthorpe was never designed for 100km/h. While cars and may have become better engineered with more driver safety enhancements, physics will always win at a certain speed. I drove by here yesterday, coincidentally on my way to six points, just after the crash. There was no "somehow lost control." He was effing flying through that stretch. You can open it right up from the traffic light at Creditview and if the light at Credit Woodlands is green (most likely) you'll be at takeoff speed before even hitting the bridge. In a Ferrari, with temps below 7 like it was yesterday morning at that hour, those tires are going to be a problem (Hello Lambo crash on Major Mack a three years ago) No speed limit and no car on the road today would have saved this driver at the speed they were travelling.

I remember when Kipling dropped from 60 to 50 back in 1989. Didn't really make a difference. At least when it was 60 you could always count on radar at Tyre ave southbound and sometimes Mattice road north bound.

I agree with sixrings that 6points now is better than what was there. I grew up with what was there and it was a mess from a movability standpoint, period. Didn't matter if you were on two feet, two wheels, or four wheels.
 
Used to be 60 km/h along the roads. Maybe over time they'll reduce the speed limit down to 50 km/h, but the traffic lanes remain to be tailored for 60 km/h. However, speeders will still do 100+ km/h because it was "designed" for the "safety" of the speeders.

Recently, this happened to a 60 km/h street in Mississauga, because the streets were "designed" for the speeders.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/two-killed-in-fiery-mississauga-crash

Two killed in fiery Ferrari crash in Mississauga

From link.





What good is posting 50 km/h (or 40 km/h) signs on arterial streets, when speeders can still "safety" speed through at 100+ km/h?
And this is a 2 lane road in both direction compare to the freeway at 6 point that has 60km on Dundas. The biggest mistake made for this area was not have 4 lanes at 50 km.

Until speed is 100% enforced, better remove the speed sign, yield and stop signs. Then what good are red lights when driver drive through them when next to no traffic on the road as well turning on a red without stopping.

Once all this area is develop, Dundas will still be a bitch like it has been since the 60's.

Cities are supposed to be for people, but traffic planners like building roads like 6 point as traffic is more important than people.
 
Walkable streets in cities have long coexisted with cars. It's only recently that it's become all the rage to claim cars ruin streets.
How many lively, pleasant, walkable streets can you name that also happen to be 6+ lane 60km/h arterial roads with turn lanes at intersections?

After you complete that exercise, how many lively, pleasant, walkable intersections can you find between 4-6+ lane 60km/h arterials with turn lanes?

After you complete that, how many lively, pleasant, walkable neighborhoods can you find with *three* 4-6+ lane 60km/h arterials with turn lanes and 3 intersections between them, all within 400m of each other?
 

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