News   Apr 20, 2021
 40     0 
News   Apr 20, 2021
 280     0 
News   Apr 19, 2021
 858     2 

Roads: Six Points Interchange Reconfiguration (City of Toronto, UC)

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
11,331
Reaction score
17,632
Location
Toronto/EY
A modest expansion of the local Six Points Park in the midst of this project is set to go in 2022.

From the City of Toronto Capital Budget (Parks)

1610722360471.png


At 400k, the budget for this will be trees/sod/benches and maybe a light post.
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
11,331
Reaction score
17,632
Location
Toronto/EY
Why bother??

There will be other money.

This isn't for the signature plaza.

The Library and the Rec. Ctre are funded and there's separate public realm dollars.

This is likely only a portion of the funding; but it could also be a 'base improvement' which would an interim step when the road work is completely done; so the soil doesn't blow away and the area doesn't look a total hash, while awaiting the larger projects to follow.
 

Transportfan

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
486
It's ridiculous killing less people?

This is Urban Toronto ... not Suburban Brampton.

People need to be more safety conscious. Bubble wrapping infrastructure only lessens that.

And UT is about discussing urban issues in all contexts, not just the ones that the downtown crowd finds desirable.
 

Lone Primate

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
953
Reaction score
105
Location
Don Mills Willowdale Park Forest something I dunno
As interesting and exciting as it always is to see some new development in town, I can't help thinking this is a retrograde step. With the sudden proliferation of traffic lights, and some of them alarmingly close together, unless they're scrupulously timed to facilitate traffic flow (something I have NEVER seen anywhere in Toronto; quite the opposite), I'm inclined to think this is going to become a major traffic snarl during rush hours. Something unsignaled that took 15 seconds to traverse looks to me likely to take upwards of a minute and a half to two minutes to get across now when it's busy. I'm not convinced this is going to turn out to be an improvement, really.

I've been pretty skeptical of traffic circles, but I'm beginning to come around. I'm wondering now if this reconfiguration might have been better served by the introduction, here, of traffic circles to Toronto itself, rather than a sudden clutch of half a dozen traffic lights stuffed into a couple dozen acres. Just a thought.
 

fanoftoronto

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
305
Reaction score
416
Location
Everywhere and Nowhere
As interesting and exciting as it always is to see some new development in town, I can't help thinking this is a retrograde step. With the sudden proliferation of traffic lights, and some of them alarmingly close together, unless they're scrupulously timed to facilitate traffic flow (something I have NEVER seen anywhere in Toronto; quite the opposite), I'm inclined to think this is going to become a major traffic snarl during rush hours. Something unsignaled that took 15 seconds to traverse looks to me likely to take upwards of a minute and a half to two minutes to get across now when it's busy. I'm not convinced this is going to turn out to be an improvement, really.

I've been pretty skeptical of traffic circles, but I'm beginning to come around. I'm wondering now if this reconfiguration might have been better served by the introduction, here, of traffic circles to Toronto itself, rather than a sudden clutch of half a dozen traffic lights stuffed into a couple dozen acres. Just a thought.
A traffic circle was also studied for this location as part of the detailed design review. Unfortunately, with 3 streets crossing one another (especially with Dundas coming in at an odd angle), the major downside was that it didn't create land parcels with sizes that were developable. You ended up with a lot of triangular land sections that make it hard to market and develop. It also created a huge plot of land in the centre of the roundabout that would have been completely wasted. It couldn't have been used even as a park as anyone using it would have to cross through the heavily trafficked roundabout to get to it.

Also, the fact that traffic is forced to slow down is a good thing. In the old highway style interchange, cars world be careening at 70-80 km/h. The bridges with their narrow sidewalks created an entirely dangerous experience to walk through. Pedestrians had to cross multiple highway style exits to get from one side of the interchange to the other. I know this from personal experience walking and biking this stretch in years past.

With regards to the number of lights:
Kipling is adding only 1 additional set of lights.
Bloor is essentially reducing the number of lights as in the past drivers had to navigate a right turn and a left turn if they wanted to go straight through on Bloor.
Dundas adds the most on lights, and even then is only 4 lights. With 2 of these being with minor roads.

Ultimately, the old design was catering fully to cars, with a horrible walking and biking experience. It could not have served as a proper location for the Etobicoke city centre due to its horrible highway style interchange.

The new design definitely improves the overall walk ability, bikability of the area and sets up the land to be redeveloped to better suit a city centre. The design is by no means perfect, Dundas is too wide, the Dunbloor light is horribly executed, there seems to be little light synchronization right now, etc. But it is miles ahead of the deathtrap that it replaces.

The detailed design review and environmental assessment documents should still be available from the city website if you want to check out the different proposals and their decision matrices that were used to pick this final design.
 

Kraylin

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
311
Reaction score
115
In my 40 years it appears Toronto, and surrounding area, attempts to please everyone and ends up pleasing no one. Political pandering, studies, and concepts that change with political winds leave us with the mediocrity you see today. Traveling the world will quickly confirm my point, in my humble opinion.
 

toaster29

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
293
Reaction score
109
I've walked around the area a few times, and I must say that walking across the street on Dundas St W on the other side of the street of St James Gate (bar/restaurant), is a big risk to your life. People turning left here think the traffic flow going left have the right away. Something should be changed there before someone dies. Every time I cross that street cars slam on their breaks and think I'm in the wrong for walking to cross the street (when I have the "Walk Now" man) after their advanced green is over.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
18,962
Reaction score
7,916
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
I've walked around the area a few times, and I must say that walking across the street on Dundas St W on the other side of the street of St James Gate (bar/restaurant), is a big risk to your life. People turning left here think the traffic flow going left have the right away. Something should be changed there before someone dies. Every time I cross that street cars slam on their breaks and think I'm in the wrong for walking to cross the street (when I have the "Walk Now" man) after their advanced green is over.
The traffic lanes need to be narrower to match the speed limit. Wide traffic lanes only allow speeders to travel along OVER the speed limit for "safety" of the automobile, not for the safety of the pedestrians or cyclists.

Narrowing the traffic lanes can allow for better bicycle lane segregation.

1616800327797.png

From link.
 

allengeorge

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
583
Reaction score
1,218

MisterF

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,362
Reaction score
2,050
People need to be more safety conscious. Bubble wrapping infrastructure only lessens that.

And UT is about discussing urban issues in all contexts, not just the ones that the downtown crowd finds desirable.
It's not about bubble wrapping infrastructure or catering to a downtown crowd. It's about building infrastructure that results in drivers being more safety conscious. The design of infrastructure affects how people use it, and how safe pedestrians are relies a lot on how streets are designed. This is true in the suburbs, downtown, and everywhere in between.
 

Undead

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 3, 2020
Messages
785
Reaction score
1,209
It's not about bubble wrapping infrastructure or catering to a downtown crowd. It's about building infrastructure that results in drivers being more safety conscious. The design of infrastructure affects how people use it, and how safe pedestrians are relies a lot on how streets are designed. This is true in the suburbs, downtown, and everywhere in between.
It's both. We gotta think in term of silver buckshot, not silver bullet, about these challenges.
 

allengeorge

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
583
Reaction score
1,218
I've walked around the area a few times, and I must say that walking across the street on Dundas St W on the other side of the street of St James Gate (bar/restaurant), is a big risk to your life. People turning left here think the traffic flow going left have the right away. Something should be changed there before someone dies. Every time I cross that street cars slam on their breaks and think I'm in the wrong for walking to cross the street (when I have the "Walk Now" man) after their advanced green is over.
One more point: if TO Transportation isn’t responsive you may want to contact your Councillor’s office (Mark Grimes) and let them know how unsafe it is. At least your concerns will be on record, and maybe they can push more effectively for change.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
18,962
Reaction score
7,916
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
One more point: if TO Transportation isn’t responsive you may want to contact your Councillor’s office (Mark Grimes) and let them know how unsafe it is. At least your concerns will be on record, and maybe they can push more effectively for change.
Mark Grimes is anti-pedestrian, as read in these articles...

Where does the Sidewalk End? In Etobicoke, of course

From link.

...Holyday’s motion was vocally supported by his neighbouring councillor, Mark Grimes (Ward 3 Etobicoke-Lakeshore). On Twitter, Grimes’ policy adviser Mary Campbell was (at least before she made her account private) making bizarre arguments for why local councillors and residents should be able to object to sidewalks, including arguing that her ward was simply planned without sidewalks....


 

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
6,846
Reaction score
9,219
^I'm not defending Grimes, but he only represents three of the four quadrants of that intersection. Councillor Holyday represents the fourth quadrant. You should try both.

Grimes held a town hall this past week regarding road safety. It is likely on line somewhere. From his comments, I do think he would respond to concerns about this major intersection.

By the way, of the 700+ pedestrian-vehicle incidents in the TPS database for Etobicoke since 2006ish, only 20ish happened on local roads, and only 6 of these in non-sidewalk zones. The biggest risk factor for pedestrians is on major roads and at major intersections - so this particular intersection is definitely in the high-risk, high-frequency category. The Vision Zero fascination with sidewalks on side streets is dogma, not data driven.

I travel that stretch regularly, and that bend on Dundas does need some attention.

- Paul
 

Top