Roads: Roundabouts

[CDL.TO]

The signalling behaviour I'm used to in the UK involves signalling as you approach the roundabout, and not changing your signalling when you are in it.

So, (in the North American context) if you want to turn left, you would signal left before entering the roundabout, then go around the roundabout to the third exit, and leave there. No need to signal right before exiting.

 

[theautomator]

This pamphlet?

No errors are jumping out at me - can you highlight them? Though it does fail to mention signalling at all when you approach a roundabout ... but I don't see an error on signalling.

This. An omission if you prefer, and in singular form . You need to signal approaching the roundabout. Signal toward your (eventual) exit.

I want to see a multi-lane roundabout around here, that would be... interesting

 

[drum118]

Was by the Roundabout today and the southbound lane south of the Roundabout was close to traffic. Crews were stripping the form work for the planter.

This meant the lane was close the last 2 days during working hours so crews to do their work there. I expected this would happen by opening up this Roundabout a week too soon.

Parking spots strips are now painted since they were not painted on Monday.

By the looks of things, the Sq One extension may open next week as they are now doing the forming for the south sidewalk. Only a small section on the north side stills has to be done.

Every transit bus I have seen using this Roundabout comes to a full stop before entering it.

Sat will be the most interesting day to watch how traffic use this Roundabout. If drivers have problems with the current 2 lanes coming out of Sq One now, the body shops will have a field day with multi-lane Roundabout here.

 

[nfitz]

The signalling behaviour I'm used to in the UK involves signalling as you approach the roundabout, and not changing your signalling when you are in it.

So, (in the North American context) if you want to turn left, you would signal left before entering the roundabout, then go around the roundabout to the third exit, and leave there. No need to signal right before exiting.

My recollection of the Highway Code booklet they give you in England is that you signal as you approach the roundabout. And then you signal left to leave the roundabout. This is what I've done there, and what I've observed.

And also what this British Government website says - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338 "signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want"

 

[CDL.TO]

My recollection of the Highway Code booklet they give you in England is that you signal as you approach the roundabout. And then you signal left to leave the roundabout. This is what I've done there, and what I've observed.

And also what this British Government website says - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338 "signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want"

I stand corrected. I guess my family are just terrible drivers. Ha ha ha.

 

[CDL.TO]

My recollection of the Highway Code booklet they give you in England is that you signal as you approach the roundabout. And then you signal left to leave the roundabout. This is what I've done there, and what I've observed.

And also what this British Government website says - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338 "signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want"

I stand corrected. I guess my family are just terrible drivers. Ha ha ha.

 

[Marko]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to be signaling left while you are actually IN the roundabout, as vehicles behind you don't know/care where you entered and would be turning left from - they only need to know when you'll be exiting right.

 

[spider]

A car approaching a roundabout has no options to communicate to other motorists with a signal as I understand it.

 

[ShonTron]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to be signaling left while you are actually IN the roundabout, as vehicles behind you don't know/care where you entered and would be turning left from - they only need to know when you'll be exiting right.

When about to leave a roundabout, I signal my exit, partly for cars going to enter the roundabout from the roadway I am moving to (letting them know I am exiting and they can enter) and to let cars behind me know my intention. In North America, and most of the world, that would be a right signal. In Britain (and Ireland, Australia, Japan, etc) that would be a left signal, and the above literature is British.

 

[Marko]

In North America, and most of the world, that would be a right signal. In Britain (and Ireland, Australia, Japan, etc) that would be a left signal, and the above literature is British.

Of course - excuse my brainfart regarding the UK - but this is the post that I was mostly replying to:

The signalling behaviour I'm used to in the UK involves signalling as you approach the roundabout, and not changing your signalling when you are in it.

So, (in the North American context) if you want to turn left, you would signal left before entering the roundabout, then go around the roundabout to the third exit, and leave there. No need to signal right before exiting.

That's completely counter intuitive to me and creates confusion, rather than clarity - which is what signaling is supposed to do.

 

[theautomator]

A car approaching a roundabout has no options to communicate to other motorists with a signal as I understand it.

(I am using north american driving conventions below)


The primary purpose of signalling as you enter is to tell drivers already in the roundabout if you intend to:

Single lane roundabout:
a) merge into the roundabout (left signal), or b) glance the corner and make an immediate right turn (right signal).

Two lane roundabout:
a) merge into the roundabout - the inner circle, or b) stay in the exiting lane (outer circle) and immediately take the next right turn.

In the single lane roundabout's case, it's possible to make a right turn from a two-lane approach without getting in the way of traffic already in the circle. People in the roundabout will know you are not about to cut them off. You can do this exiting from Square One - if you're making a right, you don't have to stop for people in the circle unless they are exiting there as well (and this is why conversely, you need to signal right before your exit). Your signal shows your intention.

In the case of a two lane roundabout, it lets other drivers know if you are merging into the inner lane to travel around (left signal), or staying in the outer exiting lane (to take the immediate next right - right signal).



Interestingly, people in Mississauga often make errors with this type of signalling in dedicated right turn lanes at traffic lights with yield signs. You should signal to the left here to show you want to merge (most people signal to the right).


In mini roundabouts, it additionally serves the same function as signalling at a normal 4-way intersection. The circle is so small that you can clearly see all approaching sides. People drive almost straight through the circle with these (its just a big dot painted in the centre of a 4 way intersection).

In short, the purpose of signalling before you enter is to let people already in the circle know if you're going to cut them off or not. The purpose of signalling before you exit is to let people waiting to enter know that you going to be leaving.

As you approach, you're not literally signalling to show where you will eventually leave, you are signalling to show if you are merging into the circle or not.




*with a single lane, single approach roundabout, this is less relevant. It just lets the people at the entrance ahead of you know if you're going to be taking the immediate next right (so they are clear to enter knowing they aren't going to get in your way).

 

[nfitz]

That's completely counter intuitive to me and creates confusion, rather than clarity - which is what signaling is supposed to do.

Why? A roundabout is just an intersection. One always signals ones intent when one approaches an intersection. If one signals left approaching a roundabout, one would clearly be taking the 3rd exit (or one somewhere in that direction). Seems pretty simple to me. As you approach the interesection, you treat it like any intersection - roundabout or traffic light.

 

[Marko]

Why? A roundabout is just an intersection. One always signals ones intent when one approaches an intersection. If one signals left approaching a roundabout, one would clearly be taking the 3rd exit (or one somewhere in that direction). Seems pretty simple to me. As you approach the interesection, you treat it like any intersection - roundabout or traffic light.

I'm not talking about what makes sense to you as a single driver, but what other drivers are supposed to do with the information you're giving them. Other drivers either have room to go, or see you coming through the circle and wait. The only signal that would impact their decision to enter or not is if you're signaling right to exit where they are entering. If you're signaling left in advance of entering, you're far enough away that they don't care where you're going and only that they have time to enter themselves.

It's a confusing signal because as far as anyone else in yout vicinity is concerned, the only direction you can enter into a roundabout (in North America) is to the right. Next, once you're in the roundabout (assuming a single lane roundabout), the only direction you can exit is to the right. Signalling left before entering is pretty much useless and is more likely to worry other drivers that you're actually going to enter clockwise. The only reason to signal left would be is if you're merging to an inner lane in a multi-lane roundabout, once you're already in the circle.

 

[nfitz]

The only signal that would impact their decision to enter or not is if you're signaling right to exit where they are entering. If you're signaling left in advance of entering, you're far enough away that they don't care where you're going and only that they have time to enter themselves.

I'd think the primary impact would be on the person behind the driver. If they fail to indicate their left turn at the intersection, and the guy behind is turning left, the guy behind would assume that the guy in front is going straight ...

Besides ... this is how it's been done for years and years ... not sure why one would debate it, any more than one would debate if the correct colours for GO and STOP are green and red.

 

[spider]

A roundabout is not an intersection in the sense that the driver approaching it has a choice of actions, he doesn't. He can turn right or park, since the latter is unlikely every one on earth is pretty safe in assuming that he is going to turn right.