nfitz
Superstar
I think we all know what a roundabout is. Not seeing the point of this ... the way one signals when approaching a roundabout is pretty simple and easily defined. Not sure what there is to debate here ...
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Roads: Roundabouts
- Thread starter BMO
- Start date
vz64
Active Member
What if there are more than three exits? What would be the intention of your left signal? From my last year experience driving in southern France (and my impression they have more roundabouts than traffic lights...) you don't signal when you approach roundabout, but you do signal immediately prior to exiting, which is very intuitive and easy to understand. Even with heavy traffic roundabouts there work smooth and efficient.
Marko
Active Member
This is what I'm saying. In regular intersections, drivers from other sides need to see your intention before you enter the intersection as their decision to enter is based on which direction you may or may not be going. In a roundabout, they know your only option is to go right. The guy behind you knows you're entering the roundabout and going right, so the only signal that serves any purpose is the one you make to signal your exit from the roundabout.
nfitz
Superstar
Surely, the sooner the guy behind you knows what you are doing, the better. If it's a 2-lane roundabout, and he's going left ... but is in the right-hand lane (shouldn't happen ... but it does), the sooner you know that he is doing that ... the better.
SlickFranky
Active Member
At a multi-lane roundabout it's common to signal indicating which lane you intend to enter. In NA that would mean left-signal indicating a merge to the inner lane, right-signal indicating a merge to the outer lane. Your signal provides no useful information to the driver behind you...but it lets drivers already in the roundabout know which lane you intend to merge with.
At a single-lane roundabout signalling on entry serves no purpose.
Clear?
At a single-lane roundabout signalling on entry serves no purpose.
Clear?
nfitz
Superstar
It never hurts to provide information to the driver behind you. If he knows that you are taking the first exit when he follows you on.
It also helps pedestrians who might be crossing, if they see from the signals, that you'll be taking the third exit, and they are trying to cross the first exit, it will give them more comfort.
Much of the time, at any intersection, the signal is for the benefit of the person you haven't seen! 99 times out of 100 it probably isn't necessary at even a regular intersection; but one still does it.
drum118
Superstar
Had a look at the Sq One Dr extension for Sheridan College on Sunday.
The westbound lane can open this week with no problem as all the concrete work for it is done.
Still got to pour concrete on the south side as there is no sidewalk from the Roundabout to LAC Dr. Sidewalk has been frame for pouring concrete on LAC. A lot of garbage has to be remove to build the sidewalk from LAC to the Sheridan building.
Cars were doing a full stop and no signal flashers for their turn. Even with cars knocking their horns behind these stop cars, drivers were total unsure what to do that they drove at a snail pace through this Roundabout.
A number of cars fail to yield to people using the crosswalk.
Otherwise, traffic flow well.
The westbound lane can open this week with no problem as all the concrete work for it is done.
Still got to pour concrete on the south side as there is no sidewalk from the Roundabout to LAC Dr. Sidewalk has been frame for pouring concrete on LAC. A lot of garbage has to be remove to build the sidewalk from LAC to the Sheridan building.
Cars were doing a full stop and no signal flashers for their turn. Even with cars knocking their horns behind these stop cars, drivers were total unsure what to do that they drove at a snail pace through this Roundabout.
A number of cars fail to yield to people using the crosswalk.
Otherwise, traffic flow well.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
OT but Huh????
Turning right from a dedicated right turn lane one would signal right to indicate (or reinforce, as they are in a right turn lane) their intention to turn right. If the turn places the driver in a lane dedicated to collecting right turning vehicles than the driver would signal to the left after completing the right turn manouvre indicating their intention to merge. Most drivers though signal the right turn and fail to signal the merge (most drivers fail to signal any lane change).
Even in one of those mini-ramp right turns, the driver should signal right for the turn, then signal left for the merge.
Marko
Active Member
I've been through the roundabout several times now and saw no issues, but never during busy periods. A couple of cars come to a complete stop and waited like they didn't know what to do before eventually eeking through, which will pass in time as people get used to it. I may find a perch to watch for a while on a Saturday afternoon to get a better feel for how others are taking it.
I would be genuinely curious to see how DoY would work with 3 of these in a row as they plan - I just don't know that it will work well once the area adds another 50,000 residents, along with more students and jobs to the immediate area.
Also to share - Square One Dr is now fully open west of DoY through the Sheridan campus.
I would be genuinely curious to see how DoY would work with 3 of these in a row as they plan - I just don't know that it will work well once the area adds another 50,000 residents, along with more students and jobs to the immediate area.
Also to share - Square One Dr is now fully open west of DoY through the Sheridan campus.
drum118
Superstar
Sept 07
Cars are still stopping at the yield signs while others blast through it at high speed.
Saw a car fly out of Sq One Mall and was doing close to 60 going west along the new Sq One extension that is posted for 30.
Some new view.
Cars are still stopping at the yield signs while others blast through it at high speed.
Saw a car fly out of Sq One Mall and was doing close to 60 going west along the new Sq One extension that is posted for 30.
Some new view.
EMP1729
Active Member
Maybe they should put a large sign in the island, explaining to people what a yield sign is. Yes, it is quite pathetic, but there are too many pathetic drivers.
They should also put up those radar signs to guilt people into slowing down, or maybe rumble strips.
nfitz
Superstar
I've noticed this tendency, particularly in Mississauga, with yield signs ... especially when entering the QEW at the end of the on-ramp. Cars go down the on-ramp, and instead of matching the speed of traffic, and merging, they come to a complete stop. And then it screws everyone up, as they have no hope of getting into traffic from a dead-stop for some time.
I've also noticed the tendency to not treat a yield sign properly occurs more frequently at weekends, and least frequently at rush-hour (when there's far more cars, so you'd expect more cases of stopping at yields, rather than less).
Perhaps a way to deal with traffic congestion in the GTA is to get more strict about licensing, and also have retesting. Do I really want to be driving behind the person who only got 95% on his written test? Which question did he get wrong ... the one about pedestrian right-of-way? Yikes!
Marko
Active Member
Further to the comments above, I agree that the yield sign is not doing the trick.
I watched the DoY roundabout for about 45 minutes on Saturday and came away with the following observations:
1) The design of the circle allows for a gradual in and out, rather than coming to more of a 90 where you have to slow to make the turn. This is necessary for the buses that will use it, but has the side effect of letting drivers think they can take it like a slalom obstacle.
2) The berm in the center is far too high, to the point that cars on the other side can completely disappear behind it. Maybe this was intentional so drivers would slow to see if it was clear instead of bombing through, but I think it has the opposite effect.
3) The yield signs just aren't doing it. Some ignore them, others treat them almost like a stop. A good number of drivers paid no attention and just followed the car in front of them without checking left to see if they needed to yield at all.
4) People making a left would slow or stop when getting to the opposite side instead of rolling through in the inner lane. Sometimes they did this to allow a vehicle to enter in front of them, other times for no reason at all. There was a couple of times when they had no choice as another vehicle cut right in front of them - or appeared that it would - but that's different. A couple of times I actually stepped towards the curb to point at the car in the circle to wave them through, then getting a smile or laugh at the cars behind or entering now that they had passed.
I don't think squaring the outside corners is an option because of the buses and I don't think a full stop sign is what you want either since vehicles can roll through if clear - so I think a flashing amber or red perched on the median itself is probably the fix, along with a sign at each entry that states vehicles in the roundabout have right of way. The 4th problem will be an education thing as people get used to using the circle.
This was Saturday from about 6:45 to 7:30. I counted cars during two 5 minute periods and got 107 and 96 vehicles, so about a vehicle every 5 seconds. It was prone to rushes when the lights at either Rathburn or Princess Royal let groups of vehicles through. Making the left from SQ1 onto DoY south seemed the most problematic, mostly due to southbound vehicles not slowing properly, but also because people exiting the mall seemed least likely (to me) to look left and just follow the car in front of them to make a right. They weren't going as fast as the north or southbound vehicles, but would be more likely to be struck by one of them because of their movement.
Three times I thought I would be a witness to an accident, but nothing happened in the end. Once when a bus rolled way to easily into the circle and almost t-boned a car, once when someone came to an abrupt stop in the circle for no reason at all, and once when there was just a single car taking the intersection like a slalom gate and nearly losing control because of their speed.
I was also in Kitchener yesterday and went out to Ira Needles to get a first hand look and it seems that the drivers were more used to them, but my brother who lives close by confirmed that way too many drivers just roll right through at speed without yielding.
I watched the DoY roundabout for about 45 minutes on Saturday and came away with the following observations:
1) The design of the circle allows for a gradual in and out, rather than coming to more of a 90 where you have to slow to make the turn. This is necessary for the buses that will use it, but has the side effect of letting drivers think they can take it like a slalom obstacle.
2) The berm in the center is far too high, to the point that cars on the other side can completely disappear behind it. Maybe this was intentional so drivers would slow to see if it was clear instead of bombing through, but I think it has the opposite effect.
3) The yield signs just aren't doing it. Some ignore them, others treat them almost like a stop. A good number of drivers paid no attention and just followed the car in front of them without checking left to see if they needed to yield at all.
4) People making a left would slow or stop when getting to the opposite side instead of rolling through in the inner lane. Sometimes they did this to allow a vehicle to enter in front of them, other times for no reason at all. There was a couple of times when they had no choice as another vehicle cut right in front of them - or appeared that it would - but that's different. A couple of times I actually stepped towards the curb to point at the car in the circle to wave them through, then getting a smile or laugh at the cars behind or entering now that they had passed.
I don't think squaring the outside corners is an option because of the buses and I don't think a full stop sign is what you want either since vehicles can roll through if clear - so I think a flashing amber or red perched on the median itself is probably the fix, along with a sign at each entry that states vehicles in the roundabout have right of way. The 4th problem will be an education thing as people get used to using the circle.
This was Saturday from about 6:45 to 7:30. I counted cars during two 5 minute periods and got 107 and 96 vehicles, so about a vehicle every 5 seconds. It was prone to rushes when the lights at either Rathburn or Princess Royal let groups of vehicles through. Making the left from SQ1 onto DoY south seemed the most problematic, mostly due to southbound vehicles not slowing properly, but also because people exiting the mall seemed least likely (to me) to look left and just follow the car in front of them to make a right. They weren't going as fast as the north or southbound vehicles, but would be more likely to be struck by one of them because of their movement.
Three times I thought I would be a witness to an accident, but nothing happened in the end. Once when a bus rolled way to easily into the circle and almost t-boned a car, once when someone came to an abrupt stop in the circle for no reason at all, and once when there was just a single car taking the intersection like a slalom gate and nearly losing control because of their speed.
I was also in Kitchener yesterday and went out to Ira Needles to get a first hand look and it seems that the drivers were more used to them, but my brother who lives close by confirmed that way too many drivers just roll right through at speed without yielding.
dlam
Active Member
I take that you have passed your written test 100% ...... even ppl know it in their head, it doesn't mean they will do it.
I propose a practical test for places that have roundabouts, conduct the G2/G test through a roundabout as one of the test elements. That would make new drivers practice driving through them with the proper rules.
drum118
Superstar
I have said far too long even when I was driving 100,000km a year that 50% of drivers should not be on the road, as they don't known the rules and how to drive in the first place.
Taking a test on these parking lots these days does not give the testers a true view how a driver can drive in real traffic conditions.
Some of those testers should not be testers in the first place.
The real problem starts at driving schools with the instructors. I have seen some of these instructors in action and only can shake my head how they got their license to teach, as they were breaking all kinds of traffic rules in the first place.
I got tested the old way by driving on the real road around Downsview test centre. The only thing the tester question me on my road test after doing it was "why were you driving 5 miles under the speed limit at times?". I said there was a light rain falling and the road was a little slick and wanted to make sure I would not slide if I had to hit the breaks because of the action of another driver. Tester said "good answer and reason and here is your licenses". Had a perfect score for both test.
I strongly believe that everyone should be tested every 5-10 years, as your driving habits change overtime. Mine did for the worse than back to good with no tickets or accidents. The testing should be done on the highway as well local streets.
Taking a test on these parking lots these days does not give the testers a true view how a driver can drive in real traffic conditions.
Some of those testers should not be testers in the first place.
The real problem starts at driving schools with the instructors. I have seen some of these instructors in action and only can shake my head how they got their license to teach, as they were breaking all kinds of traffic rules in the first place.
I got tested the old way by driving on the real road around Downsview test centre. The only thing the tester question me on my road test after doing it was "why were you driving 5 miles under the speed limit at times?". I said there was a light rain falling and the road was a little slick and wanted to make sure I would not slide if I had to hit the breaks because of the action of another driver. Tester said "good answer and reason and here is your licenses". Had a perfect score for both test.
I strongly believe that everyone should be tested every 5-10 years, as your driving habits change overtime. Mine did for the worse than back to good with no tickets or accidents. The testing should be done on the highway as well local streets.