C
cassiusa
Guest
A really quick one.
|
|
|
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
D
dashingdan
Guest
It's the easiest corridor to implement. If this actually happens, the Talent will shuttle between Scarborough on the Lakeshore East line and Markham (likely Mount Joy) and will not conflict with other rail uses - as Transport regulations forbid the direct mix of light rail (Talent) and heavy rail (GO monster trains, VIA, freights).
I don't see how that would be NOT mixing heavy and light rail. If one of these trains was used at current GO stations you mention, like Scarborough, then that seems pretty mixed to me. Or does it all depend on the track the train is running on?
Milton does have the highest ridership off Lakeshore, but Georgetown will come first with all-day service. CP's the problem there, and some stations (Dixie, Cooksville) are supposedly served by Lakeshore, the Milton line was implemented in 1981 largely to relieve congestion on Lakeshore West.
I know Milton was introduced as relief for Lakeshore West, but how many Milton riders could actually take Lakeshore as an alternative? I doubt very many. If Lakeshore was convenient in the first place, isn't that would you would take, considering it has better service than Milton? As a sidenote, Milton stations even share Zones with Lakeshore, Erindale=Clarkson (Zone 12), and Cooksville=Dixie=Port Credit (Zone 11).
Where I live, I can take Streetsville or Erindale, but I would go to Erindale because it's slightly cheaper. But I would never consider Clarkson, or Port Credit. They're simply much too far.
S
spmarshall
Guest
As long as they aren't running at the same time, it's not a direct mix of different rail vehicles. The O-Train and NJTransit River Line are light rail diesel operations that can (and do) have freight trains at night. And at Scarborough, the Uxbridge Sub/Stouffville line has its own track, the far north one, before connecting to the Kingston Sub.
A
Antiloop33rpm
Guest
^Thats a good question actually. I am not sure what Transport Canada will allow specifically. The regulations may apply between mixing heavy rail freight and light rail passenger, but there might be an allowance for heavy rail passenger and light rail passenger. If there was no mixing of even the two passenger types allowed than a small platform and station and small section of track adjacent to Scarborough station could constructed so that the Talents would never actually have to go on the Lakeshore line. But without specific details it is hard to know exactly what GO has planned.
Edit: Here is a link to Transport Canada's summary of the O-Train Pilot Project. Among some of the interesting notes are that "It is the first time that light rail passenger trains had been mixed with heavy rail traffic on an existing rail network" which I take to indicate that the idea of even briefly mixing current GO commuter trains and the Talents at a single station might not be such an obstacle. As well the report also stated "The Bombardier trains were better suited for long distance commuter service" which might partly, through the experience gained from the O-Train pilot project, be what has led GO to purchase the Talents for their system.
Edit: Here is a link to Transport Canada's summary of the O-Train Pilot Project. Among some of the interesting notes are that "It is the first time that light rail passenger trains had been mixed with heavy rail traffic on an existing rail network" which I take to indicate that the idea of even briefly mixing current GO commuter trains and the Talents at a single station might not be such an obstacle. As well the report also stated "The Bombardier trains were better suited for long distance commuter service" which might partly, through the experience gained from the O-Train pilot project, be what has led GO to purchase the Talents for their system.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
"I don't see how that would be NOT mixing heavy and light rail. If one of these trains was used at current GO stations you mention, like Scarborough, then that seems pretty mixed to me. Or does it all depend on the track the train is running on?"
I'm assuming that Scarborough station has (or will have) two platforms, or tracks on both sides of one platform, so that the Lakeshore GO trains and the Stouffville O Trains can serve the station simultaneously. I believe there's two tracks at Scarborough station but the two lines merge into one set of tracks SW of the station. The O train (would it be only 1 train? The Stouffville line is a single track) would then shuttle back and forth freely during the day - I can't remember the last time I saw a freight train on the Stouffville line.
There's potential for massive GO ridership growth in Scarborough and Markham. I don't think filling these trains all day will be a huge problem.
I'm assuming that Scarborough station has (or will have) two platforms, or tracks on both sides of one platform, so that the Lakeshore GO trains and the Stouffville O Trains can serve the station simultaneously. I believe there's two tracks at Scarborough station but the two lines merge into one set of tracks SW of the station. The O train (would it be only 1 train? The Stouffville line is a single track) would then shuttle back and forth freely during the day - I can't remember the last time I saw a freight train on the Stouffville line.
There's potential for massive GO ridership growth in Scarborough and Markham. I don't think filling these trains all day will be a huge problem.
D
dashingdan
Guest
I think Milton would just as much off-peak ridership as Scarborough. A quick way to get downtown any time of the day would be awesome for people who live in Mississauga.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
The ridership issue is moot if the ability to run the O Train on tracks separate from other types of trains is the main/only prerequisite. Could it be run on the Milton line?
D
doady
Guest
The ridership issue is moot if the ability to run the O Train on tracks separate from other types of trains is the main/only prerequisite. Could it be run on the Milton line?
Does it matter? Cuz GO Transit could just add more tracks if they need. It is ridiculous that a line that has 1/4 of the ridership of the Milton line will get all-day service first.
S
spmarshall
Guest
Nope. The Galt Sub (Milton line) is the CP mainline, and CP will not permit any more GO Trains, especially outside of rush hour, without hundreds of millions of dollars in upgrades. Stouffville fits the bill as it is cheap, available and has reasonable projected demand. Note that the Talents would not be able to enter the Union Station Rail Corridor under current Transport restrictions.
I repeat. This will not be realistic for Milton. Stouffville is the only one which will work.
I repeat. This will not be realistic for Milton. Stouffville is the only one which will work.
D
dashingdan
Guest
So what then do you propose for Milton, which is the next busiest line after Lakeshore? Status quo?
A
Antiloop33rpm
Guest
I repeat. This will not be realistic for Milton. Stouffville is the only one which will work.
Your right. In addition I think its important to remember that this is probably not going to be introduced as a regular service project. If you read through the Transport Canada report (which appears to be based on the much more comprehensive City of Ottawa report available here), you can see that OC Transpo gained some rather invaluable information on Light Rail operation by starting with their pilot project. When you consider that the type of service that will be offered with the Talents is going to be a new experience for GO, it makes a lot of sense for them to do much the same and use the Stouffville line for what will probably be a GO pilot project. This will give them a few years to get first hand experience and information on operating this kind of service and seeing how it attracts riders and functions in the overall transit network. Once that is done, then other options can be explored further and larger capital investments made (as I noted in this thread, by buying heavy rail class vehicles such as are used in Holland and other European countries then the issue of mixed rail vehicles is no longer an issue).
While this is an exciting development I think its worth keeping in mind that this is more likely a preliminary exploration and implementation of this kind of rail transit with any large changes to regional rail still a few years away.
So what then do you propose for Milton, which is the next busiest line after Lakeshore? Status quo?
How about giving GO a chance to use Stouffville as a pilot project so that it can be much better prepared when it does begin to upgrade busy lines such as Milton.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
"It is ridiculous that a line that has 1/4 of the ridership of the Milton line will get all-day service first."
This just seems like a temporary service boost to take advantage of the availability of the O Train vehicles, not the premeditated first step in GO's long-term renewal and upgrade to all-day service. edit - as antiloop says, it's effectively a pilot project...the Stouffville line's tracks are virtually unused during the day.
I can't find a list of GO station ridership figures, but I can assure you that the Stouffville line's ridership will explode if the RT is taken offline for replacement. Perhaps GO knows something we don't know about the construction timing of its replacement?
This just seems like a temporary service boost to take advantage of the availability of the O Train vehicles, not the premeditated first step in GO's long-term renewal and upgrade to all-day service. edit - as antiloop says, it's effectively a pilot project...the Stouffville line's tracks are virtually unused during the day.
I can't find a list of GO station ridership figures, but I can assure you that the Stouffville line's ridership will explode if the RT is taken offline for replacement. Perhaps GO knows something we don't know about the construction timing of its replacement?
S
spmarshall
Guest
So what then do you propose for Milton, which is the next busiest line after Lakeshore? Status quo?
I gave you the facts - I have no bias against the Milton sub, but Stouffville works for this cheap pilot. And GO's plans include boosting the Georgetown sub before Milton, as it is easier to add all-day service there, as CN isn't as hostile as CP, and less money is needed for new tracks. Milton's a huge can of worms. I gave you the truth - maybe you can't handle the truth.
B
bizorky
Guest
They are nice trains. It's the truth (according to me).
D
dashingdan
Guest
Lol I know exactly why Milton is so hard to do. I don't care about that. I'm wondering about SOLUTIONS.