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Plans to fill in Allen Road

picard102

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3 is likely the best outcome at the end of the day we'll see. Can't imagine the TTC is going to be excited about having to entomb half the line.
 

DonValleyRainbow

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If option 4 were chosen, then Marlee Avenue may have to be downgraded to a local road rather than a collector road.

If options 5 or 6 were chosen, then Marlee Avenue may end up becoming congested (though temporarily for Option 5).
Wait for the wrath of the nearby residents who will start screaming blue murder at any suggestion of high-density development in THEIR neighbourhood. The mere mention of infill condos where the Allen is now will bring the usual fears of traffic congestion, too many people, changing the entire feel of the neighbourhood, you know the rest.
Has anyone seen the traffic congestion on Lawrence near the Allen? It's a shitshow, the amount of people turning to and from Marlee, it bungs everything up including the 52 bus.

I think it would be valuable to show that Option 4 could considerable reduce traffic on Marlee, and make it a quieter street. Beyond that, yes, the NIMBYs will be out in full force.
 

DonValleyRainbow

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I think some combination of mostly 3 and 5 in a limited amount would be appropriate.

AoD
This is something I forgot to point out: the alternatives will be examined for four sections:
  1. Transit Road to Wilson
  2. Wilson to Yorkdale
  3. Yorkdale to Lawrence
  4. Lawrence to Eglinton
The recommended solution may consist of a combination of the alternatives I posted originally.

From the ToR:

 

Edward Skira

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Wait for the wrath of the nearby residents who will start screaming blue murder at any suggestion of high-density development in THEIR neighbourhood. The mere mention of infill condos where the Allen is now will bring the usual fears of traffic congestion, too many people, changing the entire feel of the neighbourhood, you know the rest.
I'd argue that removing it entirely and replacing it with new density would actually reduce the issue of congestion. All those cars using the highway (Allen) to get downtown would disperse elsewhere. Allen and Eglinton and Allen and Lawrence aren't busy today because of local uses but rather that people are trying to use the Allen to get elsewhere faster (mainly downtown). Remove the Allen and they will use other roads or use other means (transit).
 

diminutive

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I don't see the point of redeveloping the Allan for increased density.

There's no real shortage of land in the area. It's one of the few parts of TO where you can find bungalows 5 mins to a subway station.

It seems like effort would be better spent encouraging development along Marlee, redeveloping that eyesore of a mall at Lawrence Square and encouraging some more activity along Lawrence between Bathurst and Dufferin.
 

DonValleyRainbow

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I don't see the point of redeveloping the Allan for increased density.

There's no real shortage of land in the area. It's one of the few parts of TO where you can find bungalows 5 mins to a subway station.

It seems like effort would be better spent encouraging development along Marlee, redeveloping that eyesore of a mall at Lawrence Square and encouraging some more activity along Lawrence between Bathurst and Dufferin.
Some points of redeveloping the Allen for increased density:
  • Capturing the value that subway service provides.
  • Increased tax revenues to the City
  • Spreading out residential and employment to other parts of the city instead of concentrating them, and providing spinoff benefits to surrounding areas.
 

Markster

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Some points of redeveloping the Allen for increased density:
  • Capturing the value that subway service provides.
  • Increased tax revenues to the City
  • Spreading out residential and employment to other parts of the city instead of concentrating them, and providing spinoff benefits to surrounding areas.
I believe @diminutive's point was not calling into question redeveloping the area around the Allen, but rather, redeveloping the Allen itself. Diminutive clearly is in support of redevelopment of the low density already surrounding the stations.
 

picard102

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I'd argue that removing it entirely and replacing it with new density would actually reduce the issue of congestion. All those cars using the highway (Allen) to get downtown would disperse elsewhere. Allen and Eglinton and Allen and Lawrence aren't busy today because of local uses but rather that people are trying to use the Allen to get elsewhere faster (mainly downtown). Remove the Allen and they will use other roads or use other means (transit).
What? How does someone use the Allen to get downtown faster than say, the DVP or the 427?
 

Edward Skira

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What? How does someone use the Allen to get downtown faster than say, the DVP or the 427?
If you live in the middle of North York (or north) you are quite likely to use the Allen. DVP and 427 are way in the other directions.
 

hawc

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Wait for the wrath of the nearby residents who will start screaming blue murder at any suggestion of high-density development. The mere mention of infill condos where the Allen is now will bring the usual fears of traffic congestion, too many people, changing the entire feel of the neighbourhood, you know the rest.
And why are any of those fears unfounded?
 

AlbertHWagstaff

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And why are any of those fears unfounded?
Never implied they were, just noted that the mere suggestion that the Allen being filled in and replaced with higher density housing would immediately raise the hackles of those living in the bungalows in the adjacent areas. If the Allen were removed and simply replaced with some higher density development ,the area might be more pleasant than having the barrier of the noisy road in the middle of the area. People might assume that 60-storey towers are coming to their neighbourhood but that probably wouldn't be the right fit. Certanly some mid-rises could blend in with the residential areas without overpowering them. The apartments on the west side of the Allen near Glencairn have been there for a long time and apparently haven't caused an Apocalypse.
 

leopetr

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In addition to the usual crimes of expressways -- wasting large amounts of space, cutting communities in half -- the Allen fails at its core function.

Specifically:

- The Allen fails at connecting Bathurst and the 401.
- The Allen fails at connecting north and south Dufferin.

I think that both of those traffic management issues could be solved while also demolishing the Allen.
 

picard102

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If you live in the middle of North York (or north) you are quite likely to use the Allen. DVP and 427 are way in the other directions.
I've lived at the Allen and 401 for 6 years. Never has it crossed my mind, nor been suggested, that the Allen was the best route to get downtown.
It seems completely counter intuitive.
 

nfitz

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I've lived at the Allen and 401 for 6 years. Never has it crossed my mind, nor been suggested, that the Allen was the best route to get downtown.
It seems completely counter intuitive.
From various parts of North York, I'd take Avenue, Mount Pleasant/Yonge, or the DVP, or even Bathurst. But if I lived right at 401/Allen and wanted to get to Yonge/Bloor with a car, surely I'd take Allen/Bathurst. (well, actually I'd probably just take the subway ... but let's pretend I had cargo or something).

So which way would you drive to Avenue/Bloor or Yonge/Bloor? Perhaps I've been doing this wrong ...
 
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