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Plans to fill in Allen Road

Johnny Au

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Ah yes, the elephant in the room called Castle Frank Brook (and it is a very common misconception that Castle Frank Brook is exposed in the southern half of Cedarvale Park (the brook is actually buried and the surface is a swamp)).

The drainage boundary between Garrison Creek and Castle Frank Brook is roughly along Vaughan Road.

It would be very expensive to build such a tunnel.
 
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dunkalunk

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Another thought I had about the 3/4 ramp at Bathurst above the valley floor. A central stressed conctete tower could be built and the roadway suspended from it to reduce the amount of impact to the valley floor. This kind of design has already been exhibited in waterslides and in suspended bicycle roundabounts
 

dunkalunk

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I've further refined the concept to include colour-coded ramps:



I suggest that anyone interested take the .kml into Google Earth to take a look at the elevation profiles of the tunnel and ramps and look at a flythough with 2x elevation exaggeration. The grades of the roadway work quite well with the terrain.
 

dunkalunk

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The 1960's called. They want your brain back.
Cars aren't going away any time soon. The only reasonable way I see to get people to agree to pay tolls on municipal highway infrastructure is to somehow make it "Better" in the process. The bottleneck at Eglinton is a problem and will continue to be a problem for the for the forseeable future and would be worth looking at fixing. Otherwise the city may as well just pour the dirt from the Eglinton Crosstown into the ditch and forget that Allen Road ever existed.
 

dunkalunk

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What I'm trying to get at is that I see the Allen as having the potential of being an imporant revenue source for the city as the city's population grows to 5 Million and the Metro Area to 10 within the next 40 years, but only if it becomes a corridor worth tolling.
 
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sixrings

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To make revenue you would need to charge more then the construction cost. So if the toll to pay for the construction was 10$ each way then you are suggesting charging 20$ as a way to make revenue? Isure drivers will love that idea.
 

dunkalunk

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There is no reason you couldn't use the loans as a lean to gain financing for the project over a 30 year payback period.
 
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sixrings

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There is no reason you couldn't use the loans as a lean to gain financing for the project over a 30 year payback period.

You could get loans which would take 20-30 years to pay back at between 10-20$ a trip. There was a report done earlier and I will have to look it up that estimated to get the allen to bloor and be paid for by tolls would cost upwards to 30$ a trip. I'm just baffled at how anyone can think that people will continue to drive if they have to pay for downtown parking and pay a toll on the way in. Essentially you are suggesting car drivers are willing to pay upwards of 60$ a day to continue to drive. That's 1200$ a month for the luxury of driving. Not only that but why not come down streets like oak wood or dufferin or bathurst or Spadina which are free. Its not like every car on the Allen is a Benz, BMW or a bentley, a good portion of traffic would avoid this toll, like the plague. And if people avoided it then the tolls would have to be increased to make up the difference. As for being a revenue source for other things in the city as was suggested, wouldn't that mean raising the tolls even more. Where is the limit?

This is the same reason why I can't support burying the Gardner. To pay for it the tolls would be so much people would avoid it anyway. If that's the case then what is the point?
 

dunkalunk

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Also against burying the Gardiner for similar reasons. There is nowhere to bury it that would not be monstrously expensive (rail corridor, off the waterfront) or cause massive disruption (rail corridor, existing ROW)

Although, my proposed Allen extension only consists of a 1.4 KM tunnel through relatively clear terrain and would come above ground before encountering any major water table issues. As well, it only extends to Bathurst, not Bloor. I would however be interested in taking a look at the report you cite if you are able to locate it.
 
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BurlOak

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To make revenue you would need to charge more then the construction cost. So if the toll to pay for the construction was 10$ each way then you are suggesting charging 20$ as a way to make revenue? Isure drivers will love that idea.
I would like to see a report on what the toll would be. Here is a quick calculation:

1600 vehicles per hour per lane x 4 lanes x 12 hours/day x 4 km/trip x 300 days/year x 20 years = $1.8B km driven in 20 years.

Cost of extension to Bathurst = 1.4km tunnel x $250M/km + 0.8 km x $60M/km = $400M.

Toll per km = $0.4B/$1.8B = 22 cents per km, OR about $1 per trip.
 

sixrings

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I would like to see a report on what the toll would be. Here is a quick calculation:

1600 vehicles per hour per lane x 4 lanes x 12 hours/day x 4 km/trip x 300 days/year x 20 years = $1.8B km driven in 20 years.

Cost of extension to Bathurst = 1.4km tunnel x $250M/km + 0.8 km x $60M/km = $400M.

Toll per km = $0.4B/$1.8B = 22 cents per km, OR about $1 per trip.
I went through every page in this thread thinking the link to the article would be in here somewhere. It also seems that DUNK has been advocating a tunnel since 2010 while I have been proposing filling in the north bound allen lanes for the same amount of time...(North bound because it causes congestion on Eglinton where as southbound the congestion stays on the allen until it disperses on Eglinton) Anyways its late and I cant find the link so after a quick google I found this Toronto Star Article which I will admit is bias towards never making a tunnel. Ill search further over the weekend...

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/860307--the-return-of-the-spadina-expressway
 

mtomo

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They should take down the 401/Allen Rd interchange, just convert it into a parclo. They should take down the flyover ramps and put traffic lights. There can be access from Allen south to 401 east via the Allen South-Yorkdale exit. And also take down the northbound access to 401 express lanes. It will reduce maintainance costs, and it will be a lot less confusing. Allen Road will never be extended to Gardiner, so might as well do it.
 

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