Plans to fill in Allen Road

[calimehtar]

On the subject of terminating the Allen at Lawrence, I found this section of a Wikipedia article about the Spadina Expressway interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spadina_Expressway

At the time of cancellation in 1971, the expressway was paved to Lawrence Avenue while the portion running further south to Eglinton Avenue had been graded only and was given the nickname the "Davis ditch". Traffic from and to the southerly end of the road at Lawrence, spilled onto neighbourhood streets, as the activists predicted, especially Marlee Avenue. Esther Shiner, who lived near the Lawrence intersection, was elected to North York Council in 1973 on a platform to get the expressway completed to Eglinton Avenue.[38].

 

[sixrings]

On the subject of terminating the Allen at Lawrence, I found this section of a Wikipedia article about the Spadina Expressway interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spadina_Expressway

At the time of cancellation in 1971, the expressway was paved to Lawrence Avenue while the portion running further south to Eglinton Avenue had been graded only and was given the nickname the "Davis ditch". Traffic from and to the southerly end of the road at Lawrence, spilled onto neighbourhood streets, as the activists predicted, especially Marlee Avenue. Esther Shiner, who lived near the Lawrence intersection, was elected to North York Council in 1973 on a platform to get the expressway completed to Eglinton Avenue.[38].

im thinking it should be at grade south of lawrence south bound only which would connect with glengrove,glencarin, viewmont,elm ridge, auburn cres .... north bound should start at lawrence... that should spread the traffic around so its not all in one area.

 

[calimehtar]

Sounds reasonable. BTW I'm planning to attend the next public consultation on Tuesday.

 

[UrbanAffair]

I live near here and hate using the allen, at least going south since there is a lot of pushing and shoving to get in to proper lanes, and sometimes the back up even at the lawrence exit is massive. I thought about it, and Im not sure if this had been proposed but what about closing southbound from 401 to Eglinton. There sure is a lot of idleing going on on this thing. Then take the space from the closed southboand road and use it for housing, or whatever, and then the option is there later to close the northbound if it still doesn't work. I have found I now always take Avenue Rd south and then Lawrence across to Marlee since I just detest so much waiting on that highway offramp going south.

 

[sixrings]

the problem most people would say is on eglinton itself... it doesnt ruin a street when a highway is back logged. however when eglinton is over run with cars trying to get on the highway it ruins the pedestrian activity in the area and must effect the businesses significantly.. Most cars are only using eglinton from the allen to bathurst spadina or avenue are using the road as a way to get downtown, not to shop or stay. the southbound lanes dont bother me at all. If people want to wait all day for the t section to work that is fine by me. A expensive toll entrance charge at eglinton would solve almost all the problems though since it would naturally cause traffic to divert but allow for the allen to stay for those who want or need to use it. Thats probably my first option.

 

[dunkalunk]

Consider the following:

The Allen would be extended in a 3 lane cross-section (1 lane SB, 2 lane NB) from Eglinton to Bathurst beneath Cedarvale Park by TBM. Partial ramps would continue to exist at Eglinton to prohibit entry into the tunnelled section to encourage the use of local roads by local traffic.

A parking structure complex would also be built at Eglinton West station to encourage transfers to the Subway and TTC (this could be mirrored with another structure at Eglinton/Black Creek). The section of the Allen could also be decked over between Eglinton and Flemindon Park.

This expansion would be paid for in-part through highway tolls on the Allen between the 401 and Bathurst and property tax levy on properties adjacent to the decked-over section. It is my hope that Toronto would decide to toll all of its highway infrastructure in order to create revenue, offset the cost of maintenance, and encourage ridership on transit. In particular, it would make the Spadina Subway a more attractive option for people coming in from out-of-town as there would be an integrated, covered parking structure.

 

[sixrings]

Consider the following:

The Allen would be extended in a 3 lane cross-section (1 lane SB, 2 lane NB) from Eglinton to Bathurst beneath Cedarvale Park by TBM. Partial ramps would continue to exist at Eglinton to prohibit entry into the tunnelled section to encourage the use of local roads by local traffic.

A parking structure complex would also be built at Eglinton West station to encourage transfers to the Subway and TTC (this could be mirrored with another structure at Eglinton/Black Creek). The section of the Allen could also be decked over between Eglinton and Flemindon Park.

This expansion would be paid for in-part through highway tolls on the Allen between the 401 and Bathurst and property tax levy on properties adjacent to the decked-over section. It is my hope that Toronto would decide to toll all of its highway infrastructure in order to create revenue, offset the cost of maintenance, and encourage ridership on transit. In particular, it would make the Spadina Subway a more attractive option for people coming in from out-of-town as there would be an integrated, covered parking structure.

Are you suggesting getting rid of the park to put in a highway? NIMBY!

 

[nfitz]

Are you suggesting getting rid of the park to put in a highway?

He said tunnel under the park.

 

[sixrings]

He said tunnel under the park.

yes I re-read it. Still would that mean new on ramps at Eglinton? Wouldn't like that. And wouldn't this just change the congestion from Eglinton to Bathurst.

 

[dunkalunk]

yes I re-read it. Still would that mean new on ramps at Eglinton? Wouldn't like that. And wouldn't this just change the congestion from Eglinton to Bathurst.

They would be the same partial ramps that exist today, or the ramps could be adjusted to meet at a single intersection on the west side of Eglinton West Station. There would be no new ramps on the south side of Eglinton.

Also, it is only one lane SB to discourage excessive congestion on Bathurst.

And in terms of cross-section, I'm thinking something like this would be favourable:

 

[Markster]

Ah, extending the Allen. No controversy could ever come from that!

Yeah, a tunnel with a single lane of traffic in each direction would be appropriate, and would change the congestion from the madness waiting for the left turn on Bathurst, to a more manageable problem of simply higher volume slightly lower on Bathurst.

Introducing a toll for the entire length of the Allen would also serve to reduce overall congestion impacts.

Of course, to build your tunnel, you're going to have to work around the existing subway tunnel, so there might be serious issues there. The expressway was going to be at grade originally, so the subway is likely not going to cooperate.

 

[dunkalunk]

Here's how it could work in google map form: http://goo.gl/maps/Ja4VZ

Basically, the Eglinton Ramps would be brought to grade on the west side of Eglinton West Station with the Northbound ramp crossing over the subway tracks before the station. Meanwhile, the single southbound lane to Bathurst would cross under the subway tracks. The lanes would meet on top of eachother.

This type of construction could be staged so that the new Eglinton ramps are built first to allow ample space for the TBM staging area. The tunnel could then run ~20m north of the existing subway tunnel at the same depth until the tunnel is brought to grade past Glen Cedar Road.

 

[Northern Light]

Ah, extending the Allen. No controversy could ever come from that!

Yeah, a tunnel with a single lane of traffic in each direction would be appropriate, and would change the congestion from the madness waiting for the left turn on Bathurst, to a more manageable problem of simply higher volume slightly lower on Bathurst.

Introducing a toll for the entire length of the Allen would also serve to reduce overall congestion impacts.

Of course, to build your tunnel, you're going to have to work around the existing subway tunnel, so there might be serious issues there. The expressway was going to be at grade originally, so the subway is likely not going to cooperate.

Zero Chance.

Politics aside......

In anticipation of Allen/Spadina expressway going in, Castle Frank Brook/Creek was buried through Cedarvale Park, the water you do see at surface is just natural accumulation, not the main water flow.

The Subway runs underneath the creek.

So you would have to go exceedingly deep to go under a major sewer/creek + a subway tunnel.

Since most cars still produce exhaust, the tunnels would have to be vented to the surface.

You also need emergency exits in case of tunnel fire.

After which you have to contemplate any ramps.

The ramps by the way would have additional complications.

Bathurst is on a bridge, at an elevation well above the valley below, so the ascent would have to begin some distance away.

Beyond Bathurst is the building envelope for St. Clair West Stn.

Shy of Bathurst, but to the south there is substantial underground water in the high ground (natural headwaters of Garrison Creek)

Not to mention some of the priciest real estate in the City.

*****

Sorry to rain on the parade, I always enjoy new ideas being posted here.............this one just isn't viable.

 

[dunkalunk]

Zero Chance.

Politics aside......

Fair enough.

In anticipation of Allen/Spadina expressway going in, Castle Frank Brook/Creek was buried through Cedarvale Park, the water you do see at surface is just natural accumulation, not the main water flow.

The Subway runs underneath the creek.

So you would have to go exceedingly deep to go under a major sewer/creek + a subway tunnel.

I'm not sure why you would purposefully build a highway underneath a subway and a culvert when there is land available 20m north paralell to these obstacles. As such, the subway could be built relatively close to the surface.

Since most cars still produce exhaust, the tunnels would have to be vented to the surface.

You also need emergency exits in case of tunnel fire.

The tunnel is close to the surface, I don't see an issue with putting in periodic vents and emergency exits

After which you have to contemplate any ramps.

The ramps by the way would have additional complications.

Bathurst is on a bridge, at an elevation well above the valley below, so the ascent would have to begin some distance away.

I've considered this. The south portal would be just past Glen Cedar Road. The road would then be brought up to the level of Bathurst Street by being built on the south side of the valley. The southbound Bathurst ramp would curve gently to meet at the corner of Bathurst and Heathdale. The northbound ramp would require a 3/4 loop to be brought down to a grade to pass under the Bathurst Street Bridge. The ramps here would be partial movement as well, the same as the Eglinton Ramps.

A traffic light would be added at Heathdale to meter traffic flow on Bathurst Street from the Southbound ramps. Also, the ramps would never need to touch the existing Bathurst Bridge Structure.

I've updated the Google Map with the Bathurst ramps to illustrate this: http://goo.gl/maps/F6LX8

Beyond Bathurst is the building envelope for St. Clair West Stn.

Which is why it ends at Bathurst.

Shy of Bathurst, but to the south there is substantial underground water in the high ground (natural headwaters of Garrison Creek)

The highway is at grade here, so groundwater would be of little issue.

Not to mention some of the priciest real estate in the City.

There would be one property that would require demolition for the southbound ramp which is 2 Heathdale Road The rest of the neigborhood would remain intact. I would wager that any negative impact there is on the desirability of the neighborhood from increased traffic and noise would be countered by being within close proximity to highway access.

I would counter your assertion and say that this is possible, but it would again come down to political will. People won't buy charging a toll on a highway if there is no perceived improvement of that highway. The way I see it there are two options in the long term: either remove the highway completely, or extend the highway so it becomes more useful and removes a major bottleneck.

 

[dunkalunk]

Another thought I had about the 3/4 ramp at Bathurst above the valley floor. A central stressed conctete tower could be built and the roadway suspended from it to reduce the amount of impact to the valley floor. This kind of design has already been exhibited in waterslides and in suspended bicycle roundabounts